Vista-15 zone 06 check

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Old 05-18-19, 06:07 AM
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Vista-15 zone 06 check

06 check displayed on keypad (6150) with continuous fast beeping. Tried quick bypass: check goes away and unit will arm & work until disarm then "06 check" with continuous beeping comes back. Zone 06 is not being used. Unit worked for years before problem. Tried deleting Zone 06 by following: install code (XXXX) + (800) + (*56) + (06) + (*00) + (*00) + (*99). Looked into possibility of shorts or opens but according to Programing Guide, if this conditions exists, system won't arm. Please experts, any advice?
 
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Old 05-18-19, 10:55 AM
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If Zone 6 is "not being used", it would normally have a 2 KOhm (2000 Ohms) resistor across Control Panel terminals 16 & 17. Regardless of what Zone Type that Z6 is set for, that resistor ought to keep it happy and not in Trouble ( 06 CHECK) or Faulted (06 FAULT).

I would have checked on the hardware before I delved into the programming. Specifically, I'd check to make sure the resistor is tightly connected on Terminals 16 & 17.
I know the modern mentality (computer culture) is to go straight for the programming; but most alarm system troubles are in the hardware.

That being said: Now that you've been into programming, you did change something and need to fix it. We warn people about "flying blind" in *56 programming and this is why. I happen to have an old Vista-20SE handy today, virtually the same panel programming-wise but with more zones. (I'm assuming you actually have a Vista-15 panel, and not a Vista-15P--it DOES make a difference.)
So I put it on a bench and walked through your entries on a 6150 KP and watched what I was doing in Panel Programming on a 6139 Alpha keypad. I already knew your sequence was missing a step, but I wanted actually to run it and see what it would do.

As far as I can tell from running your sequence, you deleted Zone 1. Check whatever's on Zone 1 and see if it's working. The sequence also didn’t take me back out of programming when I entered *99. Did you make extra entries, or have to power down the panel to get out of programming? This would be the time to mention that, if you did either.

I'm guessing you got that sequence from some expert who typed it down from his memory and I'm guilty of having done that myself. The hazard is forgetting a step that we get to doing on "auto-pilot", or at least I do and sometimes forget it's there until I encounter it displayed on an Alpha KP.

Here's the proper sequence for what you're trying to do, and I strongly recommend that you download a copy of the Vista-15/Vista-15 SE installation manual and see what those entries actually are as you make them.

To delete Zone 6: (I would still check the Control Panel resistor first, and this step might not even be necessary).
Installer Code (XXXX) + (800) + (*56) + (0) + (06) + (*00) + (*00) + (*99).


Assuming that I'm right about your having deleted Zone 1, the sequence to restore it depends on what the Z1 Zone Type is (was), i.e., what is Zone 1 used for? Fire (smoke & heat sensors)? Entry/Exit door(s) (with time delays)? Instant perimeter zone? Gun cabinet? Flood sensor?

Tell us what type of zone it _was_ and we can give the right sequence for it. Probably.

I still advise against going into *56 Zone Programming without an Alpha KP, but you're probably going to do it anyway, so I'd do what I can to help.

Just for fun, if you look on eBay, right now you can buy an Ademco 6139 Alpha Keypad for $20, shipping included, and take the mystery out of any future Zone programming. The KP doesn't have to look good if you're only using it at the panel for *56 Zone Programming.
 

Last edited by ChosunOne; 05-18-19 at 12:11 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-25-19, 03:17 PM
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Thank you so much for your great reply. The unit is in a rent home I used to live in so I will have to go over and try your suggestions. Sorry, I just thought to check forum. For some crazy reason I was thinking I would be emailed. I will follow your instructions and let you know. Thanks again. Robert PS I have the installation and setup guide as well as the programming guide.
 

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Old 05-25-19, 03:30 PM
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Forgot to mention Zone 1 is door from garage and front door (Primary entry/exit with entry delay. I do need an alpha keypad, per your suggestion, but trying to fix without it because may sell home at the end of this next years lease. The house has two keypads. Just to be sure, how do I tell the difference between 15 and 15P?
 
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Old 05-25-19, 04:04 PM
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Radjad.... when you reply..... click on "Go Advanced". Down towards the bottom you'll see thread subscription. I set it to instant email for you. It can be changed. Each thread is independently set.
 
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Old 05-26-19, 01:23 PM
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06 Check

OK ChosunOne, here is what I found: Zone 01 still works fine. Connections seems OK. No resistor across 16 & 17. (I have pic of wiring on pwb if that will help). Please remember this wiring has not changed. New program sequence you suggested removed the 06 check for a few seconds, then it came back without me doing anything else. Sorry, not sure if the fast beeping was there or not because I have to go to house and take notes on what I try. I can also clear by xxxx + 6 + 06 then set alarm by # away and everything works. Entry sets off delay alarm but when "xxxx off" problem returns after armed red light is displayed for a second or two, then fast beeping and "06 check" displayed with ready green light. I do understand that xxxx + 6 + 06 is temporary and will clear when off sequence is performed.
 
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Old 05-26-19, 11:12 PM
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Good that you didn't delete Zone 1. Not sure how you dodged a bullet there, but you did.

It occurred to me that when you say Zone 6 is "not used", it _may_ mean that something _was_ on zone 6 at one time and now isn't being used; but in fact, there may have been wires connected to Zone 6 at one time; and the End-of-Line Resistor (EOLR) may have been at the end of those wires, i.e., the Z6 loop.

The fact that the display is Z6 Trouble instead of Z6 Fault makes me think that Zone 6 is programmed as a 24-hour supervised zone, like a fire or hardwired panic zone; and that the loop may have been opened by any number of things so that the panel is no longer seeing the EOLR. That seems the simplest explanation.

It doesn't really matter what caused the problem, as long as all you want to do is to set Zone 6 to be ignored. If there is a wire pair on panel terminals 16 & 17, disconnect them. Be sure not to disconnect the negative leg of the wire pair for Z5, which is also landed on T16. You should be able to follow the wire from T15 to see what wire it's paired with, that shares T16 with the neg. leg of Z6---all this assuming that there is a wire pair on T16 & T17. If there is no such wire pair, then good, but it still sounds like the panel is looking for that 2000 Ohm resistor on T16 & T17..

To make the panel happy without bothering with programming, put a 2000 Ohm (2K) across T16 & T17, making sure nothing else is attached to T17. A 2K resistor will have color bands, red-black-red-gold. You may find 2K resistors on other zones in the panel, to see what they look like.

Resistors are rated for resistance (2K ohms), tolerance (gold band = 5%) and Watts (usually 1/8 or 1/4 Watt, but any rating 1/16W or above will be fine). You can buy resistors cheap on eBay, or if you have trouble, PM me and I'll send you one in an envelope; but I may be slower than eBay.

Almost forgot. Inside your control panel's steel cabinet door, there should be a stick-on wiring diagram with a lot of tech info you don't need; and the model of your panel. Don't get confused if it say "Vista 20 / Vista 15" . The V-20 and V-15 are almost exactly the same wiring and programming-wise, the main difference being number of zones supported.

If it reads Vista-15, or Vista-15SE; but _not_ Vista-15P, then it's a Vista-15.
 
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Old 05-27-19, 04:45 AM
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06 check

I think a pic will tell you more. Not sure how to send to you and not sure what PM means. New to forums. I tried to reply to em I got from forum with pic attachment. Not sure what happened there. Thanks
 
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Old 05-27-19, 11:04 AM
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Pictures are often helpful, if they're reasonably clear and well lighted. A pic of the wiring diagram with model nomenclature, and of the main control panel circuit board, and even a close-up of T16 & T17 would be helpful, if you don't leave a spaghetti-mess of wiring in front of the terminals so I can't see what's connected to what.

Look at the pinned threads when you first log in, to see how to post pics.
https://www.doityourself.com/forum/e...your-post.html

"PM" is Private Messaging. You access it by clicking on a forum member's name and get a drop-down menu that includes "send a private message." This is NOT to replace keeping the conversation on the forum, where other members can learn and/or contribute. It is to pass private information between members, such as address and/or phone number. If you have trouble finding an inexpensive 2K resistor, PM me your address and I'll mail you one. But if you have more questions about resolving the problem, let's keep it in the public forum where others can benefit and contribute.

Be aware that eBay may cost a buck or two total and you'll have to buy more than one, but will probably get the resistor(s) to you faster. I live in a remote setting and don't go into town often.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+Watt&_sacat=0
 
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Old 05-27-19, 11:59 AM
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It was/is not uncommon for there to be a zone wired to the plug on the RJ31x jack for the phone lines. If that came unplugged, that could easily be your problem child.
 
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Old 05-27-19, 12:59 PM
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06 check: pwb T16 & T17 wires

Here is the pic: T16 & T17 are the last terminals with wires. Not sure what the blue wire is. If you can tell me what wires to remove and which ones need to stay this may fix the 06 check issue. Thanks.[ATTACH]105440[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 05-27-19, 01:33 PM
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Follow the wires, what are they connected to? (That's what the guys that get paid, do).

Basically, if it's just a tamper switch on an unused phone jack, you can simply replace the pair of wires with the same 2000 ohm resistor used on the other circuit (from terminal 16 to terminal 17) and move on.
 
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Old 05-28-19, 08:21 PM
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What MrRonFL said:

Zone 6 is clearly connected to _something_, whether you think you're using it or not. I see that the installer put the EOL Resistors on all the other 5 zones, but for some reason seems to have put the Zone 6 resistor at the end of the zone loop.

That would make me think that Z6 is a Fire Zone, except that you said you were able to bypass it by using CODE + 6(Bypass Key), which you can't do for a zone programmed as a Fire Zone. So I suspect that MrRonFL is right about his guess that it's wired to a tamper switch on the phone jack, and all you have to do is plug into the phone jack again to get it working.

This, incidentally, is why multiple pix of everything at the control panel is helpful--saves a lot of guessing. Zone 6 wires could go to an independent 3rd Party RF Receiver (Linear or other brand) or half a dozen other things in the neighborhood of the control panel; or to a flood sensor in the basement, or half a dozen things not near the control panel.

Frankly, now that I've seen that Zone 6 is connected to _something_ unknown, I don't advise you to bypass it until you find what you would be deleting from your system.
 
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Old 05-29-19, 04:24 AM
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06 check

Zone 06 would only clear for a few seconds, then come right back. So I guess it would not clear. I don't mind removing ANYTHING on Z6 so long as it clears the fast beeping. Everything else works OK. Could you tell me what wires to remove. I will go over today at lunch and try. Thanks, PS I can take a pic with wires organized, on the rest of terminal strip, if that would help. It is about 6:30 am here now.
 
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Old 05-29-19, 12:02 PM
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Sorry I didn't get online until now. I'm probably too late to help you today.

Terminals 16 and 17 are for Zone 6, so to bypass Zone 6, you would take off the two Z6 wires that are connected at T16 and T17. Now T16 is a common terminal for both Zone 5 and Zone 6, so one of those two green wires connected to T16 is for Z5. You want to be sure _not_ to disconnect the Z5 green wire. The way to tell which green wire on T16 is the Z6 wire is see which one is paired with the yellow wire on T17.

I see in the picture that one green wire joins a red wire in the plastic sheathing that carries the pair to wherever. So the _other_ green wire joins the T17 yellow wire in a Z6 pair, somewhere out of the picture. Those are the two wires you want to disconnect, and replace them with a 2K-Ohm (i.e. 2000 Ohm) resistor connected across T16 & T17.

If you don't already have a 2K Resistor, the quickest way to get one is to find whatever device is on Zone 6. Z6's 2K Resistor is installed on that device. If MrRonFL's guess is right and it's a phone jack tamper, then you will find the 2K Resistor connected on two screws of that phone jack. Of course, if that's the case your _quickest_ way to clear the problem would be to plug the phone cord into that jack.

That's if you have a phone cord, which I don't know because it would be connected to Terminals 21, 22, 23, and 24; which are not shown in the picture, and you haven't mentioned if you found a phone jack. Feedback speeds the troubleshooting process.
 
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Old 05-29-19, 01:32 PM
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06 chek

Thank you ChosunOne. My renter wants me to come by tomorrow. So your replay is timely. Trying to go over your response line by line. Paragraph 2 "so one of those two green wires connected to T16 is for Z5". Their are two wires, but one is BLUE. Notice this is solid conductor (maybe smaller gauge) vs. the other pairs. So, do you think this blue wire should be removed? Also, remove the yellow wire (also solid conductor) from T17? This would leave the green wire terminated on T16. Then connect 2K resistor across T16 & T17? If so, what would happen if I just disconnected the blue (T16) & yellow (T17) without installing the resistor? These two wires are different and go into the wall. This was a basic install with protection only for windows and doors, as far as I was told and can remember. The new home was built in 2002 while I was watching from the beginning and I lived there for 3 years before I rented. Alarm was used by all my tenets until this one. The problem only came up in the last year when the beeping was a problem. I really appreciate all your very detailed help. Anyway to rate you? Thanks
 
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Old 05-29-19, 03:09 PM
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Yes, take the blue and yellow wires off and replace them with the resistor.

The _better_ choice is to figure out what is connected to those two wires, and correct whatever is holding the zone open.
 
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Old 05-29-19, 06:48 PM
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Sorry for the confusion. I can see, barely, the blue contrasted against the green, now that you tell me it's blue. It looked to me like a darker shade of green in the picture, perhaps caused by the light & shadow. It still looks like that to me if I didn't know it was blue.

I hope that's not a symptom of my aging eyes. I still have no trouble telling wire colors when I'm working with them in sufficient light--but I've noticed that I need more light for it to be "sufficient" these days.
 
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Old 05-30-19, 02:30 PM
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More than likely, it's your screen's color balance. Mine is pretty tweaked, because I work with a lot of photos and graphics, but a lot of screens are iffy with blues and greens.
 
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Old 05-30-19, 03:09 PM
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06 check

OK all NEW information. Looks like the blue and yellow wires go to smoke detectors! My renter tells me he thinks the alarm that started all this was a different sound from entry alarm (not sure) After that the fast beeping at the keyboard started with the display of 06 check. All 5 sensors connections are good. One is terminated with a resistor. Looks like I have a problem with smoke detection sensors. Surprised to find these do not have a battery backup for each one and I guess only one inside alarm. Could not find a 2 K resistor but looks like I won't need one. Any ideas for trouble shooting smoke alarm sensors? Sorry this is so drawn out. I should have figured this out earlier. Too busy chasing rabbits!
 
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Old 05-31-19, 02:32 AM
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You have 4 wire smoke detectors. They get their battery backup from the alarm system battery, and use a different sounder pattern on the system siren to indicate an active smoke alarm (and the active device will have the LED on solid).

Each detector has both alarm relay connections, and 12v power. Check to see of there is power at each detector, and check that there is continuity from the head end zone connection through to the last detector.

Since this seems to be programmed as a fire zone, it needs to see the 2k resistor all the way through.
 
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Old 05-31-19, 05:03 AM
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06 check

Thanks MrRonFL. Is there any other indication (LED) when the system is on, other than the solid LED after alarm? Research finds additional diagnostic information when activating detector's integral reed switch with a magnet for self-diagnostic routine and provides visual indication (?) if service is required? Thanks
 
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Old 05-31-19, 07:07 AM
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06 check

MrRonFL: Just noticed you said the smoke detectors get battery backup from system battery. I have been trouble shooting system with battery disconnected (its bad). Would that matter? Initially, I connected it when doing all the programing but is had been disconnected since.
 
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Old 05-31-19, 12:21 PM
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06 check

MrRonFL: I will be leaving the county on Sunday, so this may be my last post for awhile. I quickly went by the house and found: With battery connected, power on (transformer plugged), & fast beeping temporarily cleared: 3 of the 5 detectors show solid LED, including the last one with the resistor. With T16 and T17 disconnected, measured approximately 2K ohms. I think this means no shorts or opens. Hard to believe 3 detectors are bad. Yesterday I did check all connections and for dirt buildup (at least from the outside). Measured voltages at terminals and all look good except T3-T4, only 0.5VDC. I think you only have voltage here during an alarm. Is that correct? Thanks again for all your help. I hate to stop in the middle of this, but since renter does not use alarm, I will simply unplug power to stop beeping until I start again. Any last input?
 
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Old 05-31-19, 12:57 PM
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RADJAD, the quick answer is, YES, you definitely need to install a fresh new battery in the control panel. (!!!)

The term "Backup Battery" can almost be misleading---because the control panel battery is not just for backup. The system is designed to run with a healthy battery at all times, not just for power failures. It's for more than just "Backup". Panels with low batteries are known to exhibit all kinds of glitches, and those glitches can be unpredictable.

Any time I troubleshoot a system for _any_ problem, one of the first things I do is a routine quick-and-dirty check on the condition of the Panel Battery; even if the problem is unrelated. Typically, most techs will write the date of installation on a Panel Battery so future techs will be alerted if it's getting old.

Your open on Z6 may not be _caused_ by a Low (or missing) Battery (or it might be), but it's likely that symptoms are compounded by not having a working battery in the system.

I'm really surprised that you didn't get a Lo Bat display and beeping regularly while you were using the system. Or maybe you _were_ getting the Lo Bat display and didn't bother to mention it because you were only concerned with Zone 6?

You should have been getting Lo Bat symptoms, and this may be an example of the Control Panel glitching. Another example might be if you really were able to Bypass Zone 6, as you mentioned earlier---you shouldn't be able to bypass a Fire Zone and arm the system. This is a standard in the industry.
 
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Old 05-31-19, 02:00 PM
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06 check

I WILL install a new battery when I get back and before I go any further. I was not getting a low bat display, even when the battery was disconnected. I believe it is in the smoke detectors. Three display constant ON LED, but string checks OK (ie measures approximately 2K ohms) Please NOTE: I could not bypass Z6 which goes along with not be able to bypass a fire zone. Trying to figure out what detectors I have without going back over to check. Think they are TS7-4 (same as 741U?) and whether they have field-replaceable optical chambers or have to replace entire unit. Also, do they have a power supervision relay, and if so, it would have to be on the PWB??
 
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Old 05-31-19, 02:54 PM
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Pretty much _any_ 4-wire smoke detector model can be used as a replacement. The ones you have are GE models, but the equivalent System Sensor 4W-B would work, as would the ESL/Kidde model 741U.

There _should_ be a end of line relay attached to the EOL resistor, but some residential installs have been known to skip them, or remove them because the relay fails.
 
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Old 05-31-19, 03:45 PM
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06 check

Thanks MrRonFL. I assume the relay is very small. I don't remember seeing it on the resistor (but I was on a ladder with bad lighting). What about replacement optical chambers? Would be a lot easier than replacing unit. What do you think about the voltage (or lack of it) on T3-T4 (see previous post)?
 
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Old 05-31-19, 06:03 PM
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It's about the size of an ice cube. If you had one it would be pretty obvious.
 
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