Upgrade for Radionics D4112 in 2019

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Old 10-15-19, 08:27 PM
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Upgrade for Radionics D4112 in 2019

Hey guys. I've done an extensive search on this site and all the advice seems to be very old. I bought a house and have one of these old systems. Like others in the past, I want to keep using the sensors and stuff, but ideally a swap in replacement of the control board with something modern that allows me to monitor myself on an app, similar to how a Ring Alarm works. I don't need to pay for monitoring, I just want it smart, not dumb. Right now, I don't even turn the alarm on because it's so ancient. I have 2 keypads that I can replace as well. I have a Ring Doorbell so I originally thought to just replace everything with a Ring Alarm but I already have existing door sensors etc that would be silly to replace.

What is a new, 2019 system that will work great as a modern, internet connected, app-enabled security system that will also play nice with zones and all the existing wired sensors and control panels?

Thanks in advance!
 
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  #2  
Old 10-15-19, 08:41 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

No bells and whistles but the D4112 will run forever. I have many accounts that still use that and the D6112.
It's only an 8 zone panel so any panel can replace it. A Vista 20P with two new keypads would be easy to install. With a little handy work you could probably use the same cabinet.

Here's one problem that will need to be addressed with the hardwired zones. The D4112 would definitely have needed the end of line resistors. If they aren't at the panel then there is one in place for every zone at one of the switches. Zones 1-2 used oddball values and 3-8 used 1k ohm.

They make modules that will allow you internet access to the panel but there will be a small charge as I don't believe there are any free apps.
 
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Old 10-16-19, 03:09 PM
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The biggest issue with these systems is that the Radionic/Bosch designs are semi-proprietary, and they are very much _not_ DIY friendly.

Something simple and basic like the Vista 20p will probably fill your bill, with the add on module to enable the kind of online access you seem to be after.
 
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Old 10-17-19, 09:01 PM
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I have to say that I am very grateful for the kind and informative responses. Normally when I post on a forum I get told off for some reason! Thank you guys, I really appreciate the help. I'll look into the Vista 20p - like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-VIS...ustrial&sr=1-2

Seems cheap! Is this all I need? (as well as a control keypad?)
 
  #5  
Old 10-18-19, 12:21 AM
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Yeah, that will work. You'll also need two keypads. Either two 6160 keypads or one 6160 and one 6160RF (6160RF Keypad will allow you to add wireless sensors). You're also going to need a new battery. Look for a 12v 7 or 8AH battery with F1 terminal tabs.

The EyezOn EnvisaLink 4 will give you remote control and system notifications via email and/or text without a monthly fee. The unit costs about $100.00 and will need to be installed inside the alarm cabinet. You'll also need to get an Ethernet cable from the module to your router or switch.
 
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Old 10-18-19, 12:49 AM
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Super helpful!

i found this too:

https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-envisalink

This will get the envisalink added to HomeKit (I have a homebridge server already, super useful and easy to setup). But the author said they’ve only tested with DSC panel. So I might play it safe and go with that?
Any issues with going that route instead of Honeywell?

hopefully someone finds the homebridge link useful!
 
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Old 10-18-19, 01:20 AM
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Maybe this

Digital Security Controls PC1832NK 8 ZONE HYBRID CONTROL PANEL EXP TO 32 ZONES LARGE CABINET https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003S1PT4A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_RDwQDbC74KR6Q

and 2 of

DSC Power Series RFK5501 64 Zones Lcd Keypad Built-in Wireless Receiver 433 Mhz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PLM1NGP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xEwQDbMYTN9ZZ

??
 
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Old 10-18-19, 03:21 AM
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You only need _1_ of the RF model keypads. Only one wireless receiver can be on the system at a time (with the DSC system, there _is_ an add on module that allows multiple receivers, but that's only needed for _very_ large buildings.)
 
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Old 10-18-19, 09:26 AM
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Maybe this

Digital Security Controls PC1832NK 8 ZONE HYBRID CONTROL PANEL EXP TO 32 ZONES LARGE CABINET https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003S1PT4A..._RDwQDbC74KR6Q

and 2 of

DSC Power Series RFK5501 64 Zones Lcd Keypad Built-in Wireless Receiver 433 Mhz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PLM1NGP..._xEwQDbMYTN9ZZ

??
I'm not too familiar with DSC panels but in addition to what MrRonFL stated you might want to consider purchasing a PK5500 keypad instead. The 5501 keypads are fixed LCD displays and will only display numbers and symbols. The PK5500 keypad is an alpha keypad and will display zone descriptions, systems events, etc.
 
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Old 10-18-19, 11:15 AM
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Ok cool. I have 2 keypad spots (one near main door in laundry and one in master bedroom) so perhaps the RF model above and also one of these then, which isn't wireless:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007U7YMKU..._t1_B006W3EUBY

I'm not too stressed about the keypads actually, as I expect most of my control of this through the envisalink and my hack to make it work with siri - such as making it auto disarm when i arrive home or arm when i leave.
 
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Old 10-18-19, 11:19 AM
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Thank you again guys. I'm really appreciative. One of the best interactions I've had on the internet (when I'm the one asking for help that is, I grew up in an Apple computer shop my parents owned so not normally the one asking for help!). I was getting a bit stressed about how to upgrade this system and almost bought a Ring Alarm and just be done with it. So glad I didn't and asked you guys!!
 
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Old 10-18-19, 03:24 PM
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There will be a bit of learning curve as you get the hang of the DSC configuration procedures and nomenclature. We can help translate.

My advice is to get the system functional _before_ you add the envisilink to the mix. That way you know _which_ system to check if something goes odd.
 
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Old 10-18-19, 04:21 PM
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Ahh good idea, will do! Thank you!
 
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Old 11-03-19, 04:45 PM
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Hey guys - question...

I'm setting up the new DSC panel. The old radionics has a disrepency - it has Zone 1+ and Zone 1- these go to smoke detectors and it has 12V out as well. There is no equivalent on the new panel. Zone 1 is just a single terminal with a Common as well.

Question is, do I connect the old Zone 1 +/- to AUX +/- on the new panel, or do I connect to Zone 1 and Common on new panel? If I connect to AUX there is already going to be another set of AUX out (I"m guessing it powers the movement detector?). Will that work? What's the right way to connect it?

Otherwise I think everything makes sense, everything else just swaps over I think, the resistors are already on there from the old system, so it's just swapping everything else over logically.

Thank you!
 
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Old 11-03-19, 08:33 PM
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i figured it out - smoke detectors go the + to the AUX + and the - to the PGM2

Everything is set up correctly, however, it's seeing zones 1-8 as 'open' when they're not. So not sure where to head now. I only have Zone 2-6 connected. Anyone have any idea the best way to try to figure out what zone is what? It won't let me arm the system as it sees them all as open. I've set Zones 1 and 7/8 to be 00 (not used) but it is still saying those zones are 'open'.
 
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Old 11-04-19, 03:22 AM
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Did the Radionic system use end of line resistors? If so, it would be a different value (1000 ohm) than the DSC uses (5600 ohm). You still have to have a dummy load on unused zone.
 
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Old 11-04-19, 07:02 AM
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oof. yes they used them and i just kept them. I can easily replace. How do you put a dummy load on the unused zones?
 
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Old 11-04-19, 02:15 PM
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You put one leg of the resistor on common, and the other leg of the resistor on the zone input.
 
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Old 11-08-19, 12:53 PM
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Success!

I can now say to SIri "Turn on/off the alarm" or "Turn on the alarm to home mode".

I ended up ditching the resistors altogether as logically, being on the control board end, it makes no difference security wise. There's a setting to disable resistor use. Getting all the cables connected was tricky, as I have a lot of looped sensors, and one of the magnets had been knocked off in renovations (which I'm going to replace soon). Having 2 more zones this time, I also separated out some piggybacked ones and gave myself a separate zone for Front Door and the Garage Doors, instead of being looped with a total of 4 sensors (including the office off the garage). So it's better to be able to find out which door has been left open etc.

Then once all my zone definitions were correct and the system was able to be armed, i installed the envisalink. This part was super simple. It's not the full featured app I was hoping for (the web interface is better but clunky), but it's enough to bridge to homebridge so that I can control the whole thing in Homekit, either via Siri or with the Home app. I doubt I'll use the app at all.

I have also included the system in automations - so when Homekit sees the last person leave home, it automatically turns the security system on, and off when someone arrives back again. That was the big thing I wanted anyway, because we tend to forget to arm the system. Our only job is obviously to make sure everything is at least closed before we leave!

Thanks again for everyone's help. I would not have been able to do this without you guys!
 
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Old 11-08-19, 03:04 PM
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Glad it all worked out. The rule of thumb with intrusion alarms, is that their tech tend to lag by a generation, or so; primarily because any major functional changes have to go through the UL certification process; and it's both time consuming, and expensive.

So when the hot tech of the day pops up, they tend to sit on their hands, waiting to see if that technology actually becomes an industry standard.
 
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Old 11-08-19, 03:09 PM
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Makes sense. It's good that I can extend with wireless devices though. I might add a camera or extra motion sensor here or there one day.
 
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Old 11-10-19, 08:44 PM
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Follow up - has anyone been successful in making arm/disarm automatic based on location (for instance, with IFTTT or similar)? The reason I'm asking is that Siri is being a bit of a B*#&$ and won't automatically arm or disarm because "it might give access to your home". So it tries to ask for 'confirmation' and then that kinda defeats the purpose. I've tried setting up the URL arm/disarm that envisalink supposedly have as an option, but it doesn't seem to work anymore.
 
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Old 11-11-19, 02:19 PM
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Figured out a solution. Anyone else new reading this who wants to make Siri automate without confirmation... Do this.

Install homebridge-script2

This is a generic homebridge plugin that is a simple switch, that will appear in your Home app. It has 3 scripts, on.sh, off,sh and state,sh. Took me a day or so, but I wrote new scripts to go in there. Do not use the filestate option, we're going to use state.sh to connect to your envisalink to check status. The big hold up is getting the script correct, following the instructions on homebridge-script2 (including making sure the script is executable) and then also making sure you have xpath, xml parser, cmake, and tidy all installed to parse the output of the envisalink http status page to only show "Armed" or something else like "Ready". That way, the script will only execute if it's appropriate to do so - it won't send an Armed command if it's already armed.

Here are the scripts:

on.sh:

status=$(curl -sS http://user:[email protected]/ tidy --output-xml yes --add-xml-decl yes --doctype omit --quiet yes --show-warnings no sed -e 's/&nbsp/foobar/g' xpath -q -e '//*[@id="CONTENT"]/table/tr[2]/td[2]/table/tr/td[2]/text()')
echo "$status";

if [ "$status" != *Armed* ]; then
curl -sS 'http://user:[email protected]/2?A=3&p=1&X=CODE' > /dev/null 2>&1
exit
fi
off.sh

status=$(curl -sS http://user:[email protected]/ tidy --output-xml yes --add-xml-decl yes --doctype omit --quiet yes --show-warnings no sed -e 's/&nbsp/foobar/g' xpath -q -e '//*[@id="CONTENT"]/table/tr[2]/td[2]/table/tr/td[2]/text()')
echo "$status";

if [ "$status" != *Ready* ]; then
curl -sS 'http://user:[email protected]/2?A=4&p=1&X=CODE' > /dev/null 2>&1
exit
fi
state.sh

(this will be run by the plugin to check the state of off and on, even if you have activated the alarm thru a physical keypad or the official envisalink homebridge plugin control, which has more options for home/away etc).

status=$(curl -sS 'http://user:[email protected]/' tidy --output-xml yes --add-xml-decl yes --doctype omit --quiet yes --show-warnings no sed -e 's/&nbsp/foobar/g' xpath -q -e '//*[@id="CONTENT"]/table/tr[2]/td[2]/table/tr/td[2]/text()')
echo "$status";

Now, change the "on_value" in your config file to say "Armed" and that will then look for the Armed stdout of the status script Also change the IP above to the IP of your envisalink, and put in your code for your system where it says CODE. Remove the filestate option in Config as well.

Now go to automation tab in Home app, and use this new switch as your activation result from entering or leaving a location, and your alarm will automatically go on and off without intervention or confirmation when you leave and come home.

NOTE - this will ONLY put your alarm in "Home" mode. There is no option with the URL method for AWAY mode, for some odd reason. For me, that's fine, as I have a dog that stays inside so I don't want my alarm automatically going on into AWAY mode anyway (I would only want to activate that manually when I know I'm taking my dog with me).
 

Last edited by benjackson; 11-11-19 at 02:38 PM.
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