Water sensor indicates "open" Huh?


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Old 02-10-22, 06:47 PM
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Question Water sensor indicates "open" Huh?

I've got a GE Concord wireless system. I replaced the batteries for two freeze detectors and a water detector. All three use the same basic chassis. No magnets, no "anti-tamper" springs, etc. Disable the sensor, pop the cover, swap out two AAA's, close up, relearn the sensor, and all done. With the freeze's. The water sensor returns "open" as if a door were open. Huh???

Water sensors are group 38, I learned the sensor as group 38, and... no idea what happened. I dunked the sensor in water and, of course, got an alarm condition. I just can't shake this "open" state. Worst of all, everything was fine until I put in fresh batteries. Grrr...

Yes, popped the batteries, let the sensor sit, put back in fresh batteries, Learn Sensor, and... same result.
 
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Old 02-10-22, 07:50 PM
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I'm not familiar with those exact wireless modules but I have worked with thousands and they all have had a tamper on the cover. Usually when the cover was opened it either tripped the device or put it into trouble. On the systems I deal with the tamper is cleared as a fault. On many systems you enter the disarm code twice in a row to clear faults.

I do remember some wireless modules that you had to relearn with the cover off or it would show open/faulted after it was put back on.
 
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Old 02-11-22, 08:44 AM
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There's no "tamper sensor" on any of the three sensors. No little plunger sticking out, no small springs, or magnets (I tried that with a spare window sensor magnet). The cover has to be removed to trip the sensor(s). There's a tab marked "press to program", which makes the "Learn Sensors" process work. It takes a little time - waiting for, I'm guessing, the system to poll or sense a signal from the device. Anyway, with a bit of patience, the panel goes beep, and sensor number [whatever] drops off the "to be learned" list.

Back-to-back disarms don't clear "Basement WaterOPEN". It did clear the alarm from dunking the sensor in water - as expected.

So, simply put, why would group 38 return "open"?
 

Last edited by RBEmerson; 02-11-22 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Typos, ever typos...
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Old 02-11-22, 11:31 AM
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IIRC, Group 38 is an auxillary, not necessarily an alarm.

Since it says OPEN, I'd say it's still in alarm, like a door or window.. Again going by memory, SUPERVISORY means the panel hasn't heard from it and TROUBLE is a low battery. Since they usually go in damp locations, they can and do fail. Nature of the beast.
 
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Old 02-11-22, 12:44 PM
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#8 is indeed an auxiliary. I didn't wait around to see if Central (Alarm.com) was going to call and ask for the safe code, but there was definitely an alarm state pending according to email from Alarm.com.

This is a case of "Uncle Harry was feeling pretty fit, until the truck hit him". The alarm was well-behaved right up to when I deleted it to change the battery. NTL, even if it was hit by a truck, I'd expect a dead (can't learn/train) or always in alarm device state. "OPEN" doesn't make sense for a grp 38 (GE calls it a water sensor) device. That is, it's not a window sensor, door sensor, etc.

Worse comes to worse, I'll leave it offline. The flood concern has been taken care of by redoing the drain (no pump needed/installed). NTL it'd be nice to know if Murphy attacks the new, improved drain.
 
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Old 02-11-22, 03:47 PM
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Winland makes a water sensor for the Concord. Separate sensor and transmitter; 6' cord. The only thing I know about them is that they are supposed to exist.

Open is a common term for a faulted loop or point. Following that logic, a water sensor could very well show Open.
 
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Old 02-11-22, 07:27 PM
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I'll investigate alternate sources for a sensor. While I have faith in I. T. Landis' (plumber) work on the drain, Murphy never sleeps. He watches...

In a sense, OPEN seems reasonable state for a dry water sensor. If that weren't a state that prevents arming. That is, it's the same state as leaving a door or window open. I checked the two terminals for the sensor. Rock solid. No open, missing sensor. Certainly not, as I was able to get to a full-on alarm state when I dunked the sensor in water. Yes, I dried it afterward, although the panel showed OPEN before I dunked the sensor.

Which circles me back to wondering if there's a "NORMALLY OPEN" or "NORMALLY CLOSED" option in grp 38 that I'm missing.
 
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Old 02-12-22, 06:41 AM
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"The alarm was well-behaved right up to when I deleted it to change the battery."

One of the unique features of the Concord panels, is that you have to be specific on the state that a transmitter is in when you enroll it. So if you deleted it, and added it back in the wrong state, it will not get learned back in, correctly.

Assuming that it's the 60-744-95 that I remember, from the install instructions: "
The sensor must be in the alarm state for Concord family panels to learn the sensor correctly"

https://www.surveillance-video.com/m...stallation.pdf
 
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Old 02-12-22, 10:16 AM
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Answered!

That's the very rascal I'm having problems with. The PDF is just what I'm missing, and need.

Good on ya!
 
 

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