Interlogix Networx NX-8V2: Expander Module NX-216E problem


  #1  
Old 03-03-24, 11:55 AM
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Interlogix Networx NX-8V2: Expander Module NX-216E problem

Hi all.

We had this system installed in 2015 as part of new build. It’s has been functioning fine until the past week. Suddenly had a fault stating Expander was lost so I disconnected AC power and battery backup then reconnected and all was OK. Then during the night it lost the Expander again and set off the alarm and scared the crap out of me but I figured it was the same issue. It’s since been disconnected. All the wiring is hardwired and of course I can get a new system but would like to try to get this operational again.

We have 3 digital keypads: NX-1820E
https://jmacfiles.s3.amazonaws.com/N...-DataSheet.pdf

The main system is the Networx NX-8V2
https://www.jmac.com/UTC_Formerly_GE...caddx-nx8e.htm

We also have a NX-216E Expander module
https://www.jmac.com/UTC_Formerly_GE...ddx-nx-216.htm

The keypads have the ability to check for
General Troubles
Panel Troubles
and Expander Troubles

All are OK but under Expander Troubles it states Expander loss of supervision. On the main screen it says Expander Lost. We only have 1 zone on the Expander and that is a glass break.

This system is not monitored.

I see 2 options:

1- I can get a new unopened Expander module and wire it up like for like. It’s $50 which is no big deal. I feel confident the system would recognize this unless there needs to be some programming that needs to be done, then maybe not. But it’s looking for the expander every time it’s wired up.

2- wire this glass break into the other glass break terminal that we have and leave out the expander. But since the system is looking for it, I don’t know how to reconfigure the wiring to make make the system be happy with this.

What do you think the best option is of these 2?

Im reasonably handy and wiring up new Expander Module like for like will be no problem. There and many resistors in the unused terminals and the new Expander modules comes with 40 of them but I’ll have to check to make sure I use identical ones that were originally used.

Thanks for your help, I greatly appreciate it!
 

Last edited by Carl Over; 03-03-24 at 12:17 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-03-24, 12:09 PM
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Just found this in the manual:

Enrolling modules and kept pads:

The NX-8V2 automatically finds and stores all keypads, zone expanders, wireless receivers and other modules connected to the data terminal into the NX-8V2 memory. This allows modules to be supervised by the control panel.


 
  #3  
Old 03-03-24, 01:16 PM
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Replacing the zone expander may resolve your issue. It _could_ simply be a wiring issue. One thing you can also check, is the condition of your backup battery. 3 Touchscreen keypads plus the expander would mean that it wouldn't take much of a brownout to stress everything. The backup battery's secondary function is to buffer minor power drags.
 
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Old 03-03-24, 02:00 PM
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I was going to get a replacement battery with the board but might get the battery first.

Here are photos of my battery and battery specs from manual. The battery metered at 4.2VÖitís labeled as 12V battery.???






What spec battery would you recommended? Thank you very much for you help!
 
  #5  
Old 03-03-24, 04:27 PM
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I used 7 AmpHr batteries, but have been retired for a while. Batteries should be replaced after 4-5 years. Sounds like your battery is 8-9 years old.

Keep us updated on what works (and doesn't).
 
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Old 03-04-24, 02:16 AM
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7Ah is a good choice, especially given the number of device on your system.
 
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Old 03-04-24, 07:49 AM
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I ordered a 7ah. Hoping that sorts me out. Interesting that the system allowed the battery to go down to 4.2V even that isn’t the cause of the current fault. We don’t have outages but nonetheless, that leaves no reserve to run the system in case power went out.

I’ll update this thread as I attempt to get this sorted. Thanks!
 
  #8  
Old 03-04-24, 08:37 AM
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Batteries can fail in such a way that they still test good via the internal battery monitor circuit on the panel, as long as they are still being supported by the charger, then crash when put under any sort of load.

Hopefully, the battery swap will stabilize the system. It still could be a bad expander board, but there's really not much to fail on one of those.
 
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Old 03-08-24, 10:58 AM
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Well, I replaced the battery with a new 12v 7.2 batter that metered at 13V. Nothing changed…still getting Expander module loss of supervision.

Looks like I’ll be buying a new Expander module and rewiring it like for like. Hope that sorts this out.
 
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Old 03-17-24, 12:43 PM
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Update:

Update:

I bought a new NX -216E Zone Expander Module in factory sealed box. Wired it like for like with all new resistors in unused zones and had same Expander lost error.

Then decided to replace the inline resistor for the 2 zones that are on the Expnader module and same error appeared.

Donít have wire to replaced the red black and green wires from the main NX-8V2 board but might go get some. Seems like itís 22G.

I replaced the backup battery and nothing changed. Seems like in the manual it states to enter a programming mode but we have NX-1820E digital keypads and there is no ďpĒ button that the manual references to enter programming mode.








In the programming mode the system is supposed to automatically find keypads, expanders etc..Any recommendations on how to proceed to get into programming mode with the digital keypads that we have?


Thanks!
 
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Old 03-17-24, 02:38 PM
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Those instructions were written for the NX148 LCD keypads and the NX 108/116/124 LED keypads. Those touch screens were a pretty late addition, just before they went under. If the keypad doesn't have a menu that says something like "system configuration" or "advanced system configuration", you may not be able to access system programming with this keypad.

Do check the continuity of the cable going from the expander to the keypad connections. Sometimes breaks in these small wires can be subtle, and you may just need to strip a fresh inch or two from the existing.
 
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Old 03-17-24, 03:41 PM
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Hi Ron. Thank you for your help!

I replaced the red, green and black 22g solid wires from the expander to the main board. Home Depot only had 22 4 stranded so that is what I got. Still getting Expander lost error.

The keypad has a battery test and after 5 minutes it said passed but I tried starting up the system with only 12V battery backup connection and no 120v power and nothing happened and no sign of system start up.

Do you think buying a traditional type Interlogix keypad and unhooking one of mine (I have 3) and wiring in the new one would be a good idea to get me into programming mode? I don’t know if it would work with the other 2 digital keypads in place. Would disconnecting all 3 and wiring in one new traditional keypad be a bad idea? If I did I would just leave those wires at the wall unconnected to anything while connecting to one set of wires with the new key pad?

Thanks again Ron!
 
  #13  
Old 03-17-24, 03:53 PM
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You don't need to swap out a keypad. If you are going to get a conventional keypad, you can hook it in at the panel head with a few feet of wire. This thing's designed to support 30+ keypads.

By the way, most modern security (and fire) controls won't start on battery power alone. They need the 60hz from the AC power input to kick start their internal clock mechanism.

Just bear in mind that you are working on a discontinued, orphan system, with zero available manufacture support; and a lot of the documentation that existed has been purged from the legacy website.
 
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Old 03-17-24, 06:47 PM
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I just went through the control menu and checked all the zones and the sliding door on the expander module registers as open, closed and ready. The keypads just stay partially lit with some red color I guess to alert us that something is not totally OK. Normally the screen fully dark. The screen says Contact your service provider, Expander lost. Expander loss of supervision.

So all zones work but somehow the Expander has been lost from supervision. Somehow need to get this supervision sorted out.

Where at the main panel would I hook up a standard keypad that had an * button that should get me into programming?

Thanks again.
 
  #15  
Old 03-17-24, 06:58 PM
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Here is a photo of the digital keypad without * button.


 
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Old 03-17-24, 07:11 PM
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The keypad terminals are marked "data" "com" & "pos"
http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/UTC/...%20Rev%20F.pdf

NX216E manual
https://files.tecnosinergia.com/fich...16E_manual.pdf

That supervision thing just means that the device isn't in the system database, which updates on entering and exiting programming. It doesn't really affect basic function. Not sure what happened with you. There is insufficient information to know what happened to your system in the past.
 
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Old 03-20-24, 08:59 AM
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Hi Ron. Thanks for the info.

I was told to do the following:

Go into programming *8 installer code (default is 9713) then 0# then press exit button 2 times. Then after 15 seconds press *7.

The bottom left keep on the digital keypad is labeled “Clear” and this is supposedly the * button. The bottom right key on the digital keypad is back space, would that serve as the # button? I don’t have an exit button on the NX1820 keypad, but do have “off” that serves as the function of the Exit button, so maybe this would work.


I’d be interested in your thoughts if I can try getting into the programming mode with the NX1820 keypad that we have or do I need to buy a traditional Interlogix button keypad and wire that up. If I get a keypad would I need one with greater than 8 zones since we have 10 zones? I could wire this in permanently near the NX8V2 panel in the basement.

Thanks again for you help!
 
  #18  
Old 03-23-24, 10:21 AM
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I tired the following sequence on my NX-1820 digital keypad:

*8 installer code (default is 9713) then 0# then press exit button 2 times. Then after 15 seconds press *7.

The CLEAR key in the lower left corner of the digital keypad does not function as the * button and the keypad interprets the *8 9713 attempt as 8971 getting keyed in and nothing happens.

I will get an Networx button keypad and wire that up at that up at the NX-8V2 panel and proceed with getting into the programming mode though the new keypad.

Can you confirm that the above sequence is what is needed to get the new functioning NX 216E Expander a module to be recognized and supervised?

*8 installer code (default is 9713) then 0# then press exit button 2 times. Then after 15 seconds press *7.

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-23-24, 10:46 AM
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I think you are adding an extra step that's not needed. From the manual linked above:
"For supervision purposes, the presence of all keypads, zone expanders, wireless receivers, and any other modules connected to the data terminal can automatically be found and stored in the NetworX’s memory. This allows the control panel to supervise these modules. To enroll the modules, enter the program mode for the control panel as described in the paragraph of this manual. If necessary, go on to program the rest of the control panel and the devices. When you exit from program mode, the control panel will automatically enroll the devices. The enrolling process takes about 12 seconds, during which time a “Service” indication will be displayed. If a module has been enrolled but it is not detected by the control, the “Service” indication (LED or LCD screen) will be displayed. "
All *7 does is reset things like smoke detectors.
 
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Old 03-23-24, 08:56 PM
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Sounds good. There are still NOS Interlogix parts available. I’ll get a NX148E keypad and get this sorted.

Thanks for your help!
 
  #21  
Old 03-31-24, 01:04 PM
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Update: I connected a new NX-1316E keypad to the NX-8V2 board and left the other 3 NX-1820E keypads connected. On powering up, the service light was on and the system did start chiming. I inputted the code and it stopped. When I inputted the *8 9713 0# Exit Exit sequence then 15 second wait then *7, the service light went off on the NX-1316E keypad and Expander lost error went away on the NX-1820E keypads. Success!
 
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Old 03-31-24, 01:16 PM
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Good to hear. I'd just leave it connected and tuck it into the system enclosure for future maintenance tasks. Once you ran the process, that keypad is also included in the "expander" list.
 
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  #23  
Old 03-31-24, 02:28 PM
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I’ll keep that keypad permanently wired in that location to allow for programming in the future. What I don’t like about that keypad is that any zone that is triggered illuminates by number automatically on the display. Can that visual zone notification be deactivated?

We sleep with whole house and all motions armed. We have keypad in master that we use to disarm prior to going downstairs in the morning. Sometimes I forget to disarm in the morning and go downstairs and trip the instant kitchen motion. That really wigs my old dog out. Can that motion be reprogrammed to start chiming if it’s tripped and system is on for approx 10-15 seconds? Or maybe relabel that motion as a door? That would allow me to be reminded that I tripped that motion and go immediately to the keypad and disarm the system.

Would you know the programming sequence to change that motion? It’s zone #5.

Thanks!

 
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Old 03-31-24, 03:48 PM
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I'm guessing that it's programmed as zone type 5 (interior follower with auto-bypass) and you are just arming it and canceling the interior bypass.

From the way you describe using the system, there's not really an available zone type that would let you do that, short of changing it to an entry/exit zone, which would mean that if you had the chime feature on, that zone would chime every time someone walked by.
 
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Old 03-31-24, 04:24 PM
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The NX1820E digital keypad has the ability to set chimes by zone, so I could change that motion to be a “door” and shut off the chimes on each keypad for that zone 5. I just tested it by setting this motion zone to chime and it chimed when activated. So if I can reprogram it as a door I’ll just keep the chime off on that zone as it currently is. And if something doesn’t work as intended I’ll go back to the current setting that I believe is 4 according to my notes. Looks like a door is zone configuration 3?

Would the sequence to change it be *8 9713 5# 3 Exit Exit?

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-31-24, 04:44 PM
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No:
*8 [installer code]
0# (main control programming)
25# (programming location for zones 1-8)
The data being displayed is the setting for zone 1.
You have to press[*] _4_ times to advance to the segment for zone 5
enter 3* to change that zone setting and save the change.
press # to exit that programming location
press the EXIT key twice to exit programming.

For more info, see page 16 of the installer manual, and the programming worksheets toward the back of it:
https://www.securevision.com.sg/wp-c...n-Manual-1.pdf
 
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Old 03-31-24, 06:40 PM
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Thanks Ron! I think that will work well. I also noticed that configuration 9 is and entry/exit delay 2 so I could configure delay 2 to be 15 seconds and use this 9 zone configuration only for this kitchen motion. One thing at a time though. Will try your sequence first. Will arm the whole system tonight and hope to not get awakened in the middle of the night. 😃

Thanks again!
 
  #28  
Old 04-07-24, 10:01 AM
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I tried the following sequence using both a 3 and 9 zone configuration for the kitchen motion detector. The programming seemed to work since lights and beeps were changing at various points through the programming sequence. The NX-1316E keypad that I am using doesn’t have an LCD display so I don’t know how the front door was labeled.

*8 [installer code]
0# (main control programming)
25# (programming location for zones 1-8)
The data being displayed is the setting for zone 1.
You have to press[*] _4_ times to advance to the segment for zone 5
enter 3* to change that zone setting and save the change.
press # to exit that programming location
press the EXIT key twice to exit programming.

After arming the system and trip the kitchen motion, using both 3 and 9 resulted in an instant siren. The front door does give a rhythmic chiming and time to disarm the system.

Any ideas why reconfiguring the kitchen motion zone 5 didn’t change the motion behave like the front door after the reconfiguration?

Thanks!
 
  #29  
Old 04-07-24, 01:43 PM
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Best I can tell, you may have miscounted and didn't change the zone as intended. If you read through that section on programming in the manual, it gives you the information on how to interpret the LED display of the programming location settings. It doesn't sound to me like you successfully changed the right segment.
 
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Old 04-07-24, 04:12 PM
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I went through the programming you provided and after 25#, the keypad shows a few numbers for each of the zones. At least I think. This photo is what appears for zone 1. 1 and 2 are lit. That doesnt mean 1+2=3 and 3 is entry/exit delay 1? That funky math doesnít work for the instant zones though.



zone 1 front door: this a delay zone. lights for zone 1 and 2 are lit on keypad
zone 2 laundry door to garage: delay zone. 1 and 2 are lit.
zone 3 sliding door: instant. 2 and 3 are lit.
zone 4 sliding door: instant. 2 and 3 are lit.
zone 5 kitchen motion: instant. 3 is lit. I reprogrammed it earlier today to type 3 but it is still instant.
zone 6 glass break: supposedly instant from our notes: 2 and 3 are lit.
zone 7 motion: instant: 1 and 3 are lit.
zone 8 motion: instant: 1 and 3 are lit.

I tested all the zones except the glass break. I see that the playing of glass breaking from a YouTube video causes a light to come on but it doesnít set off the alarm. Clapping does the same to register a light but doesnít trigger the alarm either. Maybe these just need legit glass breaking to sound the alarm.

Any thoughts on the 2 zone lights for each zone configuration (except zone 5 that I changed earlier)? Thanks!
 
  #31  
Old 04-08-24, 03:18 PM
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It's a simplified binary truth table: Zone 1 LED = 1; Zone 2 LED = 2; Zone 3 LED = 4; Zone 4 LED = 8; Zone 5 LED = 16; Zone 6 LED = 32; Zone 7 LED = 64; Zone 8 LED = 128

You add the value indicated by the lit digits.
1+2=3 for zone type 3 (delay)
2 & 3 lit = 2+4=6 for zone type 6 (instant)
Since you only have 3 lit for zone 5, then it's zone type 4, which is interior follower, which are an instant trip when no delay is being timed.
The other motions are set as zone type 5 which is interior follower with automatic bypass on stay arming.

Somehow, you have managed to not enter the correct keystrokes to change zone 5.
When you are in the right programming segment, if you want the motion to be a standard delay it would be 3* if you want it to be delay 2 it would be 9* That
  • is important. It's the equivalent of the "enter" key.

    To set a longer entry delay for delay 2, it's in segment 3 of programming location 24. The default setting is 30 seconds and you can set it for up to 255 seconds.
 
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Old 04-13-24, 01:14 PM
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Thank you very much Ron! Thanks for the clear explanation. I’ll reconfigure and it should work.

So if I PROPERLY program zone 5 to type 3, I should be able to double check that it is correct by going through the programming and verifying what zone numbers are lit when I get to zone 5 ( by pressing * qty 4 times). That should show zone 1 and 2 illuminated since 1+2=3? If I decided to change zone 5 to type 9, then zones 1 and 4 would be lit since 1+8=9?
 

Last edited by Carl Over; 04-13-24 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 04-13-24, 01:50 PM
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Yup, these things are really primitive computers. Heck, the biggest mistake people make with them is thinking that they are more sophisticated than they really are. The info's all there, but you have to slog through the text of the instructions and parse out the jargon each brand choses to use.
 
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Old 04-13-24, 05:24 PM
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SUCCESS! The zone 5 now comfirms type 3 configuration in programming locations by illuminating lights for zone 1 and 2. I armed the system and triggered the kitchen motion and the system slowed chimed like my front door does.

Thank you very much Ron!
 
  #35  
Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
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Our system only has 1 siren near the primary bedroom on the second floor. We have a motion in the garage and one in the basement. When I was testing the system, when I tripped either motion I couldn’t hear the siren if I was in the garage or in the basement. I’d like to add a siren to the basement and to the garage so if someone go into either, they would hear the siren and hopefully they would run for the hills. I have the standard Interlogix SS100H. Looks like the MG Electronics SS100H. Looks like the Bosch D116. Looks like the UTC 13469 siren.

The current siren is wired to the NX8V2 board using the standard 4 wire wiring. 2 wires into one terminal and 2 into the other terminal on the board. I assume the siren needs more like 18G wiring and they used the standard 4 wire that they had. There is no resistor in this siren wiring. Someplace in the Interlogix manuals I saw mention that a siren might need a resistor otherwise there might be some leakage or something like that.

Can I add 2 more sirens using the same model siren and wire the same way? If I can, should I add a resistor into the wiring and how would that be done?

Thanks!
 
  #36  
Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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You need to take the amp draw specs for the sirens, and add it up. You have a fair amount of stuff drawing on your system power supply. I'd recommend adding up all of your current draws for all of your keypads, boards, existing siren, and powered devices like motions. With a 40VA transformer (the most typical) you have just 1 Amp to work with. Since the siren(s) use the battery to buffer some of their draw, you can fudge over 1 amp, but not by a lot. Powered sirens draw more than most people realize.
 
  #37  
Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
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Here are the specs for these 350mA
sirens:




Ron, when you say there is 1A to work with, if the 3 sirens together would be 1050mA, this setup should work? Thank you!
 
  #38  
Old Yesterday, 05:59 PM
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You also have to add in the amps consumed by the 3 keypads, the zone expander, and things like motions. It _all_ counts.

You are probably safe with _one_ added siren, but not two.
 
 

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