Siding/Sheathing

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  #1  
Old 04-18-04, 05:23 PM
jdew1920
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Siding/Sheathing

I am planning on building a new shed this spring, it will be a 12'x16' with gambrel roof, full 8' high ceiling below and a full size loft above with 7.5' of headroom built on a slab, framing will be 16" OC. If it matters, I may eventually turn this into a little workshop and finish off the interior. BTW, for this size building I do not need a building permit.

Everybody knows the cost of lumber has skyrocketed, especially plywood and OSB. To save a little I was planning on using 5/8" T1-11 plywood siding to serve as both siding and sheathing - I will need about 20 sheets. Right now that is going for about $30 sheet (yikes!). I have also looked into hardipanel vertical siding and LP smartpanel vertical siding.

I like the idea of using the hardipanel since it seems like it would be really durable and hear it holds paint well. But its only 5/16" thick, though they say it can be applied directly to studs - this goes for $20/sht. Supposedly the smartpanel is much improved over the bad stuff they put out years ago, and I have heard mixed reviews on this stuff. This also is only 3/8" thick, but can be placed directly on studs. I was browsing the nearby HD this weekend and found that they are discontinuing the smartpanel and will sell the hardipanel instead , so the smartpanel was marked down to $8.00/sheet - that really caught my eye since it is usually around $18/sheet.

So here's my delema, I really am not comfortable just using either the hardipanel or smartpanel by themselves without some type of sheathing - they just seem too thin to me.

Any opinions / experience with these products?

How does this idea sound? Since the price of 1/2" plywood and OSB is around $20/sheet (3/8" is $15), if I decided to go with the hardipanel or smartpanel, why couldn't I use a layer of the smartpanel siding as a sheathing? I thought I could place it on horizontally, then of course apply the hardipanel or 2nd layer of smartpanel vertically - seems like this would be a pretty strong set up.

Ideas or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
 
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  #2  
Old 04-19-04, 07:03 AM
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First, in most cases regardless of the size you will need a permit. With this they will ask for a diagram or a set of hand drawn prints describing what you are planning to do. With this you will need to follow your local codes as required. You can however try this in your prints for approval. When you frame your walls at each corner at a 30-degree angle from your top plate to your bottom plate. Set a 1x4 on the wall while it is lying on the ground. Using a pencil trace the 1x4s angle onto the studs. Take a circular saw and set the blade to of an inch. Cut along the lines you have traced and make several additional passes inside the lines. Take a hammer and knock out the cut peaces leaving a notched area at each corner that will be filled with your 1x4. This is called a corner brace. This will allow you to place anything you like on the outside. I hope I explained this clearly but should you not understand something please let me know and I will be happy to clarify. Good Luck
 
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Old 04-19-04, 07:48 AM
jdew1920
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homerthefoamer - thanks for the reply.

Actually I do not need a permit. In my town, for a shed or detached garage <200sf you only need to get a zoning permit. I actually called the bldg department to double check and ask about requirements and inspector told me I could build it any way I like since they will not be inspecting it.

So - I'm just trying to make it affordable while also strong. I do know what your talking about with the corner bracing. I thought about that but I still have a concern over the the thickness of the hardipanels being only 5/16" - they do seem strong but I just imagine something hard hitting the side and going right through since they are somewhat brittle. I figure a layer of sheathing that is pretty affordable at $8/sheet would be a good investment as far as a backing for the hardipanel and increasing the strenght of the structure.

Any opinion on the idea? Maybe the hardipanel would be strong enough - I just have a hard time putting up something that is a little more than a 1/4" thick and leaving it at that.

Thanks for any more input.
 
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Old 04-19-04, 08:35 AM
jdew1920
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homerthefoamer - thanks for the reply.

Actually I do not need a permit. In my town, for a shed or detached garage <200sf you only need to get a zoning permit. I actually called the bldg department to double check and ask about requirements and inspector told me I could build it any way I like since they will not be inspecting it.

So - I'm just trying to make it affordable while also strong. I do know what your talking about with the corner bracing. I thought about that but I still have a concern over the the thickness of the hardipanels being only 5/16" - they do seem strong but I just imagine something hard hitting the side and going right through since they are somewhat brittle. I figure a layer of sheathing that is pretty affordable at $8/sheet would be a good investment as far as a backing for the hardipanel and increasing the strenght of the structure.

Any opinion on the idea? Maybe the hardipanel would be strong enough - I just have a hard time putting up something that is a little more than a 1/4" thick and leaving it at that.

Thanks for any more input.
 
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Old 04-19-04, 06:17 PM
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jdew1920,

I don't want to rain on your parade, but you better be asking some questions at your local bldg. dept. about the permit requirement.

Around here, anything over 120 sq. ft. needs a permit. Where you are, they MAY allow you to go up to 200 sq.ft. without one. But I'll bet my next born child that as soon as you add POWER -- You WILL need a permit!!
 
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Old 04-19-04, 07:49 PM
jdew1920
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Don't worry - I have an umbrella.

Don't know what other questions to ask other than what I have already. Like I said - don't need a permit for a shed or detached garage < 200sf, only a zoning permit. If I was adding power now perhaps I would need one - but I'm not. In fact I even asked an inspector what he would recommend as far as building it - he said "a 4" slab, with a 10 or 12" thickened slab, besides that, what ever you want".

I don't think the bldg dept has much time to go around inspecting sheds since there is a ton of new development in this city.

Does this mean I want to slap some garbage together and call it good - no. That's why I'm asking these questions. When I am done with this I want it to meet or exceed code even though it doesn't need to
 
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Old 04-19-04, 07:50 PM
jdew1920
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I meant a 10 to 12" thickened edge.
 
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Old 04-19-04, 08:04 PM
jdew1920
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You may have a point though - I'll double check to see what would need to be inplace if and when I do add power.

Thanks

Still looking for any suggestions.....anybody have experience with hardipanel?
 
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Old 04-19-04, 08:06 PM
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jdew1920,

The let in bracing that homer is talking about is a lot cheaper than HardiePanels, and (just a guess on my part) has a lot more shear strength, which is what you are looking for. Go with it.

You've checked your codes where you live. If they are telling you that anything under 200 sq. ft. doesn't need a permit, then you are fine. Local codes vary from one place to the next -- we all know that. Hey -- around here,I have to use a different set of codes just because I step out of the County and into the City!

What concerned me was you comment about turning it into a workshop at some point in the future. From that comment, I gathered you would be talking about adding power to it. Then, you WILL need a permit!!
 
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Old 04-19-04, 08:55 PM
jdew1920
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Sorry about the confusion about the power.

To be honest I like the idea of using the hardipanel because it is fiber cement, its supposed to be very durable and holds paint extremely well. But maybe the smart panel siding which is an OSB based product would work just as well for me.

For the hardipanel, their website says that on studs 16"oc, using 6d nails, the shear values are between 157 and 200 plf depending on the fastener spacing - I don't know if that is good or not, or how it would compare with plywood or osb.

From what you said it sounds like I don't really need to worry about that if I use the let-in bracing. So now I am just looking for any recommendations on either the hardipanel or smarpanel.

Also, should I be concerned about the thickness of these products?

One more question - for the let-in bracing, is it let-in on the exterior side of the framing?

Thanks again.
 
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