bad siding job be the cause of leak?

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Old 01-01-08, 01:18 PM
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bad siding job be the cause of leak?

Hi Gang happy New year.
general sceanario question for anyone who may have experienced this...can a poor vinyl siding job allow rain or melting snom to get behind the siding and find it's way down from the 2nd floor level to the top of a 1st floor bump out roof and get into the house where it find itself in the ceiling inside the house?
Let me know if anyone seen or experieiced anything remotely familiar...Thanks.
 
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Old 01-01-08, 03:19 PM
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Of course it can. Proper flashing is imperative with any siding job, and since we can't see your job, you should determine if the flashing is in place. This will keep water at bay where there are turns, drops, etc in the structure. Is it a relatively new siding job? If so, call them back out and tell them of the problem. Now, if you are having ice dam problems, it may not be because of the siding, since it works its way up into anything it wants to.
 
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Old 01-01-08, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid View Post
Hi Gang happy New year.
general scenario question for anyone who may have experienced this...can a poor vinyl siding job allow rain or melting snow to get behind the siding and find it's way down from the 2nd floor level to the top of a 1st floor bump out roof and get into the house where it find itself in the ceiling inside the house?
Let me know if anyone seen or experienced anything remotely familiar...Thanks.
Absolutely. Vinyl siding is NOT a weather resistant barrier, and "must be installed over a weather resistant barrier system that includes 1) a continuous weather resistant material and 2) properly integrated flashing around all penetrations and where vinyl siding interfaces with other building products such as brick, stone, or stucco."

See pp 2 here:

http://www.vinylsiding.org/publicati...al_english.pdf

At home inspections here in Chicago we frequently see serious water problems resulting from improper installation and flashing of vinyl siding, both on new constitution and when it is installed over existing cladding. If fact, in my experience it's unusual to see a vinyl siding installation which correct in every detail, and that's true even of work done by established siding installers who do dozens of jobs a year.

If you post a picture of the exterior at and above the area were you are experiencing water penetration I'll see if I can make a guess as to the likely cause of your problem, but ultimately someone who understands how to properly install and flash such materials will have to take a look on-site and perhaps remove some siding to determine the exact nature of the problem and how to fix it.

One thing I CAN tell you: If someone shows up and proposes to fix your problem with a caulking gun - or heaven forbid with a can of roofing cement - they are 1) almost certainly incompetent to diagnose or solve your problem and 2) will likely make it worse.
 
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Old 01-02-08, 05:03 AM
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Michael, why is it whenever I go in for repairs, I have to remove 4 lbs of silicone? Is it supposed to be a cure all? Have to scrape it back to the original strata and start over again! And, generally, it is a lap problem.
 
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Old 01-03-08, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
Michael, why is it whenever I go in for repairs, I have to remove 4 lbs of silicone? Is it supposed to be a cure all? Have to scrape it back to the original strata and start over again! And, generally, it is a lap problem.
If you want a serious answer, it's that 1) most installers of such products don't understand in general how they work, and in particular how they need to be flashed 2) in many cases there are trade-interface issues ("it's the other guy's responsibility") and 3) often it takes a few years for the full effects of the problem to become apparent, and even if the contractor is still around and the homeowners knows who they are, the crew members are long gone and busy screwing up installs for someone else.

The people who are best at this are the people who have spent a good deal of time repairing their own and other people's mistakes ("Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment... at least half true in this case."). I mean, 30 years ago I was screwing all this stuff up too, and I'm still learning, every day, how to do it better.
 
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Old 01-03-08, 04:54 PM
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A working example:
http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/sho...&file=3702&s=0

The text:


http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/sho...&file=2124&s=0

Think of your home's windows as 'Vertical SkyLights'. Water gets at the sides and tops of them. The water must have a way to exit from the siding. Ever notice how SkyLights on the roof have the lower flanges/flashing exposed so water can escape? The same holds true with regular windows.

Here are pictures of window flashing. Metal used should be no less than 30 long x 14 wide. Notch out a 4 wide x 24 long piece.

For these pictures, I used a display window inserted into a faux wall and I omitted the insulation board, Tyvek and tape. I used duct-tape to prevent water from getting behind the flange, same as way Tyvek tape would be used in a real installation. DO NOT OMIT THOSE STEPS!
The left side of the window was installed the way most builders and siding installers do it. See how the water goes directly BEHIND the siding. You must depend on the Tyvek, felt or any other covering to never let water into them. Or rust nails. Or wick into the sill plate. These covering are supposed to be the SECOND line of defenses against the weather!
On the right side of the window, the water exits ONTO the siding and NEVER reaches the Tyvek, felt or any other covering! This is how the siding becomes your FIRST line of defense against the weather.

Instructions for flashing a 'Pre-Flashed window.
Tape and wrap the opening normally. Insert the window, level and check for square. Put a few nails across the top and upper corners to hold it in place. Insert the notched section of metal BEHIND the window flange on both corners, and nail upper edge of flange to hold it in place. Finish securing the window. ( If the windows get caulked, they can be caulked before securing the top and inserting the metal). DO NOT NAIL THE BOTTOM EGDE OF THE METAL AND DO NOT PUT ANY HOLES IN IT OTHER THAN THOSE REQUIRED TO SECURE THE WINDOW.
Now tape the window flange.
Run the siding up the wall. The LAST PIECE OF UNCUT SIDING BELOW THE WINDOW GOES BEHIND THE METAL. Cut the metal off flush with the locking strip on the last uncut piece. LEAVE THE METAL UNNAILED. Continue to install siding normally, but for best results, cut a 3 strip off the bottom edge of next piece so water will flow out uninterrupted.
Remember! To work properly, ( for all you that also do roofing ), the window has to be installed just like a flanged skylight. Roof or Side over the lower edge and it will bite you!

In the case of a NEW window with brick-mold and J-channel, the metal flashing is supposed to be installed BEHIND Brick-mold and before the J-channel. When siding an existing house and this can't be done, Install the flashing behind the J-channel. Assuming the J-channel is correctly installed, this should catch about 95% of the water.
I usually charge about $150.00 per window to flash them after the siding is already on. Minimum charge is $300.00.

Any questions, just e-mail me.

Frank

Old web details:

Here are pictures of window flashing. Metal used should be no less than 30 long x 14 wide. Notch out a 6 wide x 24 long piece.
Tape and wrap the opening normally. Insert the window, level and check for square. Put a few nails across the top and upper corners to hold it in place. Insert the notched section of metal BEHIND the window flange on both corners, and nail upper edge of flange to hold it in place. Finish securing the window. ( If the windows get caulked, they can be caulked before securing the top and inserting the metal). DO NOT NAIL THE BOTTOM EGDE OF THE METAL AND DO NOT PUT ANY HOLES IN IT OTHER THAN THOSE REQUIRED TO SECURE THE WINDOW.
Run the siding up the wall. The LAST PIECE OF UNCUT SIDING BELOW THE WINDOW GOES BEHIND THE METAL. Cut the metal off flush with the locking strip on the last uncut piece. LEAVE THE METAL UNNAILED. Continue to install siding normally, but for best results, cut a 3 strip off the bottom edge of next piece so water will flow out uninterrupted.
To work properly, ( for all you that also do roofing ), the window has to be installed just like a flanged skylight. Roof or Side over the lower edge and it will bite you!
At the link below, select the Window Details album.
Window Details

I'll be adding pictures on this page at a later date.
 
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