Damaged Ends on Fiber cement siding

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Old 10-14-12, 05:43 PM
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Damaged Ends on Fiber cement siding

As I am preparing to get my house exterior fiber cement house painted, I have two areas on the side of chimney with fiber cement blocks where two fiber cement boards meet at an angle (I believe they are just decorative, not sure). The edges of those boards have deteriorated and because of a one inch open gap between them that was covered with a trim, I am not able to add any sort of metal flashing. Can anyone tell me if I can use a strip of roofing Vycor Plus Flexible Flashing under the 1x3 trim that covers that gap? or what would you suggest?
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Last edited by ram2008; 10-14-12 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 10-14-12, 05:50 PM
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Sorry, I can't picture what you're describing. Is this affecting 2 rows of siding, one on top of the other? and they are rotting where they meet? Sounds like this siding is pretty close to the roof, yes? Fiber cement siding needs to be kept 2" off roof surfaces due to splashing, and those cut edges need to be primed and painted to protect them from soaking up water like a sponge. I'd remove and replace them.

If you can post a picture that would be great. It's hard to give you any specific advice when we can't see what you see.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 06:21 PM
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Name:  photo (2).JPG
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Size:  44.7 KB These are the photos of the problem area.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 06:27 PM
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Name:  photo (1).JPG
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Size:  12.6 KB Problem area is on bottom of angle as indicated by arrow
 
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Old 10-14-12, 06:39 PM
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That's a very unusual looking shed roof. What did they do, use fiber cement on the roof? If so, I don't even know what to say, I'm dumbfounded. That's got to break some sort of building code.:NO NO NO:

I think the thing to do would be to remove a little of the 1x4 or 1x6 trim and investigate further. Any trim in front of the roofing material would act like a dam, stopping water and causing it to run down the wall.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 07:09 PM
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All areas of the fiber cement are ok, except for the horizontal edge, or semi-horizontal edge since it is angled. If I take that part off, what would you suggest I use instead? I was just replacing the trim boards when I saw the problem. It is part of the building design so I do not think it was code violation anyway.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 07:26 PM
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Not sure what brand of siding you have, but this quote is straight from James Hardie's HZ10 instructions:

" HardiePanel vertical siding may be installed on vertical wall applications only."

I'm just saying that products meant for vertical walls should never be used on roofs. I can't find a specific code that deals with this, but I guess codes can't cover every silly thing a builder might conceivably do.

As for the problem, I think the solution lies in the mfg's instructions, above. The siding that is on the sloped surface should be removed and the roof should have a ROOFING product installed. I don't think I will try and make any other solution seem viable.

If that's not an option then get yourself a few tubes of good quality sealant (OSI Quad / Geocel Watershield, etc.) and caulk that gap up. That will be at least as good as the rest of the existing roof is.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 07:50 PM
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Thank you, I will try to get a matching vinyl siding for now until I get the whole house siding changed (in 3 or 4 years I hope) otherwise I will use the caulk you suggested. If the old fiber cement held for over 30 years, maybe it will hold a little while longer. At least now I know I will have to pay attention to this area when re-siding the house in the future. Thanks again.
 
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Old 10-14-12, 08:07 PM
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Okay, I hope I helped... I know that in dry climates builders can get away with a lot more things that would never fly in places where we get a lot of rain. I'm surprised the siding is that old and has lasted as long as it did!
 
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Old 10-16-12, 01:10 PM
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While you're tightening things up, you should give some attention to the piece of vertical corner trim at the top of the chimney--looks like it could use a few fasteners to bring it back where it belongs.
 
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Old 10-16-12, 03:16 PM
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All areas of the fiber cement are ok
The fiber siding may be OK, but I wouldn't bet the bank on what's inside this structure. I fear a substantial amount of water damage and rot will be discovered if any exploratory surgery is done. That shed needs decking, flashing and roofing material to shed the water away properly, IMO.
 
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Old 10-17-12, 09:49 PM
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I was afraid of that too. I will definitely change those horizontal boards and use roofing material. So since I will change all those trims around that area at the same time, which primed trim do you suggest? It all gets full sun in the summer and the beating rain in winter.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 03:36 AM
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Not sure what XSleeper would recommend, but I like to use Azek. It comes primed and is quite weather resistant.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 06:34 AM
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I can't tell from the pics whether or not your trim is smooth or has a bit of rough texture (rough cedar?) It also depends how much you want to spend for a superior product like Azek.

The problem many people have with Azek, or any other white PVC trim is the expansion and contraction, and painting it dark colors. I will usually screw it to the wall which I feel limits the expansion and contraction somewhat. A corner intersection like that will be prone to gap open when using PVC, so caulk and paint will be required with seasonal changes. PVC moves alot here in the midwest because it gets so darn cold in the winter and hot in the summer. But maybe in warmer climates its more stable. But yeah, since Azek never rots you will never have to touch it again. If you use screws, it is more work to go back and fill and sand the filler you put on the screw heads.

Other products you could use- LP Smarttrim, which is a preprimed engineered wood trim. Miratec, which is an engineered paper fiber trim. Both are treated to resist decay and have pretty good warranties, but with both you need to exercise care to prime/paint all cut ends. The benefit of engineered trim is that if you do everything according to the mfg instructions, you at least have a warranty. Try getting that from a tree. LOL

I would stay away from any preprimed wood that is fingerjointed, but that is also an option and is probably pretty common out there and might match what you currently have the closest. It's really up to you. If I had to pick one, I think I probably like LP on your style of home.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 07:33 AM
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Thanks for the recommendations, I will look for Miratec locally. The trim I currently have is redwood; the eastern side of this 40 year old house still looks good all around, siding and trim, but the west side and that chimney area have taken a beating. so for now I am getting it painted, rather high price, to hopefully last 3-5 years and then get the siding and trims changed all around. I am in northern California where it gets to 100 in the summer and 40ish in winter. Any recommendations on siding? for the future that is.
Thanks
 
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Old 10-18-12, 11:11 AM
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I'm a big fan of fiber cement lap siding. Don't much care for the look of 4x8 sheets but if you want to keep the look the same Hardiepanel Sierra 8 would match close to the existing. Could give more suggestions if you had a pic of the front of the house. I like shake shingle accents... Nichiha makes some nice cement siding too.
 
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Old 10-28-12, 10:53 AM
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Name:  Roofing Shed.jpg
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Size:  32.7 KBXSleeper, I did pull off all the trim on that shed roof area and got roofing paper and a piece of roofing roll to cover it as well as OSI Quad. So now my question is do I place a piece of drip flashing on the bottom portion under existing flashing and cover the unflashed side with drip flashing as well? under or over roofing paper?
 
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Old 10-28-12, 06:55 PM
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Yes, adding flashing would be a good idea. Install it under the existing flashing (top left and bottom right) so it sheds water. If you get d-style drip edge, get the 6" which will have a longer vertical leg than the 5" d-style. I put flashings on top of felt paper, not under. Some may argue the other way, but that's also the recommended way to install ice and water shield, which sticks to the sheathing. Roof membrane first, then flashing 2nd.

I'm not a big fan of roll roofing... too many exposed nails. IMO, architectural shingles would have been a better choice for you.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 09:59 AM
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Done....almost
This is what I ended up doing. the photo shows a little gap on the bottom right, but actually it is not that bad, the flashing overlaps there. Now all I will do is use OSI/Quad to Name:  Done .jpg
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Size:  47.2 KB the bottom flashing. Thanks for coaching me through this. Much appreciated.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 05:53 PM
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okay.... it looks like you are making some progress...... when I said the flashing would go on top of the "roofing felt", roofing felt is underlayment, which the final layer of shingles go over. I am hoping you are going to apply some shingles on top of that, since that's what's normally done. Felt... then flashing... then shingles.

The top end of your left side flashing should be tucked under the left side of the wall flashing, at the top of the roof.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 07:03 PM
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I see what you mean now, sorry I misunderstood. I will fix that corner on the top end of the left side.

I do not have any shingles, so can I just take that piece of rolling roof and put it on top of the flashing? I do have felt underneath it. Or just put another piece or that rolling roof paper on top of what you see in the photo?
 
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Old 11-02-12, 07:57 PM
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I really hate rolled roofing. If I were you, I would leave the rolled roofing as is, and go buy a few shingles when you have the time/money. I know that Home Depot sells a few types and colors of shingles individually (if you don't want to buy a whole bundle). I would say that it would take about 10 shingles to do the areas you have pictured. Perhaps something like these.



I wouldn't remove the rolled roofing that you have installed, it will just have holes in it, and maybe a couple tears by the time you're done. Since you have it nicely prepared, I'd just put a few shingles over the top of it all and call it good. The top row of shingles would need to go underneath that wall flashing on top.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 08:11 PM
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ok I will try Home depot again. when I checked before, they only had a whole box..each area (2 of them) are only 16"x36"
What do I put that on with?
 
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Old 11-02-12, 08:24 PM
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The area you have to shingle is that small? wow, I guess it looked bigger. It would take about 7 rows of shingles... What you cut off of one side will work on the other, so 7 or 8 shingles total should do it.

Our Home Depot has a few select bundles open and on display in one of the end aisles, near the roofing felt and supplies. The roofing nails you have will work to nail them down. Maybe read the instructions on a bundle while you are there. All the nails you put in the first piece are hidden by the next piece. The only exposed nails you would have when you are done is a couple face nails in that wall flashing on top.

Since your rake flashing isn't very wide, you will probably want to caulk a bead of roof sealant on that flashing (the one next to the chimney) then lay a shingle into that bed of sealant, nail it down, then caulk another bead of roof sealant for the next shingle to lay in, and so on, until you reach the top.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 08:31 PM
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Yes those areas are very small, they are like the saddles on the side of the chimney. I can't think of what else to call them really. Just one more question, that top row of shingles goes over the flashing?

Thanks a lot XSleeper I will do just that. Wish me luck in finding an open bundle.
 
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Old 11-02-12, 08:57 PM
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The top row of shingles would need to go underneath that wall flashing on top.
Some guys don't like to see the wall flashing, so they will tuck the second to last row of shingles under the wall flashing, and then the final row of shingles will get cut to fit and they put it over the top of the wall flashing (it would need to be face nailed) so as to hide it. Either way is okay in my book.

And you're welcome- glad to help. If I believed in luck, I would wish you some. More correctly, I believe in "time and unforeseen occurence". LOL
 
 

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