Siding Around Vinyl Window Sill Replacement.

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Old 08-06-13, 05:41 PM
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Siding Around Vinyl Window Sill Replacement.

So Iím in the midst of planning my residing project for next summer.

My goal is to minimize the use of j-channel as much as possible, and for my window sills I am thinking of using the Double Snap trim replacement vinyl sill (I plan on using just the sill from Double Snap and 3 Ĺ lineal surround with crown molding from Certainteed at the top, but only because I prefer the look.)

Anyway, when I first saw the DS trim used on Ask This Old House (Vinyl Casing, Dishwasher | Ask TOH Episodes | Ask This Old House TV | This Old House) I noticed that when the siding is placed around the sill (about 9:30 on the video), it is simply cut to fit around sill. I figure that under sill trim would be used underneath, but what about the side and top of the sill?

It would seem a shame to have to use j-channel for that little bit after going to all the trouble. Should I caulk those seems and call it a day?

Any thoughts?

You can view a more detailed video of the sill instillation at Installing Window Sills Using Royal Building Product's Double Snap Vinyl Trim - YouTube but it doesnít show the siding being installed around it.

Thanks
Marc
 
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Old 08-07-13, 05:49 AM
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Putting a finish trim on the top and bottom of the cut edge of the siding will help stiffen the siding and will help prevent it from getting wavy. On top, the finish trim will more fully fill the j-channel. You don't use it on the sides. I don't know what seams you want to caulk, but if you are talking about caulking the notch around the sill, don't. You probably won't have a 6" long piece like he does. A 6" piece doesn't expand and contract too much, but usually you have a long piece that goes under the sill, and continues down the wall to the left and right. The siding needs to be able to expand and contract, so you can't pin it to anything with nails or caulking or it will tend to buckle and ripple as it expands and contracts.
 
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Old 08-07-13, 06:10 AM
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Going to need J molding at the top and sides. No way is just caulking going to hold. Vinyl expands and contracts way to much.
Never heard of the trim needed under window called finish trim. Around here it's called under sill or utility trim.
I'd take a pass on that Double Snap. Vinyl just expands and contracts way to much. I make all my own out of coil stock.
The ones needed on the sides and top most often are made in two pieces. One to cover up the stop molding and the other to cover up the trim on the sides.
I also noticed in that video that they did not build out the sill or the side trim before covering it.
Doing it that way the J molding going to stick out past the trim where water can leak in behind the siding.
They also skipped the step where if the sill sticks out beyond the side trim it needs to be cut off even so the J molding can be run in one piece not cut up in little pieces to get around the sill.
 
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Old 08-07-13, 05:04 PM
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Never heard of the trim needed under window called finish trim. Around here it's called under sill or utility trim.
Yep, same thing. Probably my farmer lingo creeping in.
 
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Old 08-09-13, 11:59 AM
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So I found an "Installation Hotline" number on Double Snap's website. The person I spoke to right away could not answer my question, but gave my the number of the Double Snap inventor (Rich, the guy in the videos).

He said that because the sill is vinyl it will expand/contract at the same rate as the siding. So simply notch around the exposed part of the sill. As far as my concern about water infiltration, Rich said that anything that makes it's way back there will come out the weep holes in the siding (since vinyl siding is not water tight anyway).

He did say that there might be a problem with expansion/contraction if I have a dark color siding with a light trim. In that case, he said, I could back-cut the sill and slip the siding behind it into hidden channel, or I could take a 6-8 inch long piece of siding, notch it around the sill, and then lap the longer piece of siding on top. He's also sending me a 2 ft sample piece of sill to play with.

I'm still on the fence with this product. On the one hand I REALLY like the idea of keeping my sills extended beyond the side casing, but I'm not %100 percent sure this is the way to go. I do give them an A+ for customer support though.

Now I just need to find Triple-3 siding in Barn Red...
 
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Old 08-09-13, 03:57 PM
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Why triple three?
Going to have a hard time finding any vinyl siding company selling siding that dark.
Some have tried and it failed because of fading and it just gets to hot, buckles or bubbles.
If you insist on barn red I'd go with James Hardee instead.
 
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Old 07-09-15, 09:16 AM
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Bump - important topic

Thank you for starting this discussion madhatter2412.

I actually registered to this forum just to address this very important topic that has not been getting nearly the attention it deserves.

Vinyl siding manufacturers are focusing on their insulated products and expensive lineal and crown molding trim kits but the basic details of finishing around window sills and existing trim details in remodeling / residing applications have not been been addressed or fully explored.

The "jump casing method" of cutting the existing trim flush and using standard j contributes to the cheaply installed look that gives vinyl siding a bad name.

In my area, the most promising material I have found so far to give the look we are looking for is a 1.25x3" prefinished brickmold from menards, in 17', 10' and 8' lenghts.
http://www.menards.com/main/moulding...782-c-9561.htm
Using this molding all around the windows will work for our current residing project on a modern house but is not a complete solution for colonial houses where a sill detail is desired.

Many people discuss the use of coil stock as a complete solution but some customers do not want to cut the sills flush with the side casings to allow the J to box around the windows and some do not want to see the J at all, as this still contributes to the cheap vinyl siding look. Crane does have a window casing lineal for $56 for 20 ft sections and a windowsill lineal kit for $65 for 10 foot sections. This option requires the lineal starter ($18 for 12') and sill end caps ($3).

The double snap trim option in white runs between $75 - $125 per opening PLUS shipping of $25 per piece. The double snap trim would be much more attractive if it was sold a a local retailer or amazon and if they would add an integral J channel to the sill kit. For picky customers like my wife the lack of integral J channel in the sill kit is a dealbreaker.

I am still investingating other potential options for finish details using dual undersill trim, flanged j-channel, h-channel, cove and corner mold, and coil stock. The inventor of the double snap trim displays considerable skill and forthought in the tips and tricks videos. One of the most promising concepts he introduces is the clip method which combines field bent trim coil and the double snap casing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCPA_rCmnAA
 
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Old 07-09-15, 02:05 PM
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Vinyl Siding Header Lineal Trim Options

Certainteed has lineal corner pieces and lineal header options but no sill.
http://www.certainteed.com/resources...w-DoorTrim.pdf
 
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Old 07-09-15, 03:11 PM
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If you are open to the idea of PVC, Versatex makes a pretty good system. They have a product line called Stealth Trim that has integral J chanels, drip edges and window flange grooves cut into it. They also offer water table, sills, preformed OSC, crowns etc. In most cases you still may need to add an undersill trim at the soffit line or under windows the receive the siding. However the integral J channels are typically large enough to hide most of the undersill.

Azek, Plygem and Royal I believe also have similar products, but Versatex seems more popular in my market......
 
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Old 07-09-15, 03:57 PM
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Markore, posting your location helps us to help you in the event you need it. Thanks for the response to a 2 year old thread. Hopefully the OP has solved his problem. Closing the thread.
 
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