Shingle siding rotting around patio

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-05-13, 07:30 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Shingle siding rotting around patio

We have an issue with rotting wall shingles, which I'm unsure how to deal with. Here are the details:

Our house has a brick patio that butts up directly against the back of our house with wood shingle siding. The point where the brick patio meets the siding was filled in by stuffing foam backer rods down into the gap and then filling it over with some sort of sealant. Over time this sealant has given way and the shingles have started to rot out along the bottom edge that is up against the patio. I've attached some pictures to the bottom of this post to show what's going on.

My basic question is this: can I just replace the rotted out singles, fill in the "gap" with new foam/sealant and call it good? Or is there a bigger issue here in that the shingles shouldn't run down all the way to the patio like this? Given the amount of rot occurring around the patio, it seems if I simply replace and reseal, I'll end up in the same position some years down the road. If a quick fix isn't a good long-term solution, what is the "proper" way to handle a case like this? Thanks in advance for the advice and let me know if you need any more details.

Name:  IMG_0875.jpg
Views: 4324
Size:  39.8 KBName:  IMG_0876.jpg
Views: 6971
Size:  39.8 KBName:  IMG_0878.jpg
Views: 3942
Size:  44.3 KBName:  IMG_0874.jpg
Views: 3716
Size:  49.9 KB
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-05-13, 08:11 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Patio pitch

As a side-note, the patio's pitch does not slope down towards the house, though it is probably flatter than I prefer. So when it rains, while water doesn't necessarily pool up against the house, given the slight irregularities in height of the brick, it does drain fairly slowly and collect in pools on the patio itself.
 
  #3  
Old 09-05-13, 10:00 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,333
Received 219 Votes on 203 Posts
Wood siding should be kept 6" above grade. id recommend cutting that first row completely off and replace it with a pvc 1x6 and z-flashing.
 
  #4  
Old 09-05-13, 11:09 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 46,171
Received 131 Votes on 117 Posts
I agree! even if you do all the painting right and stay on top of the maintenance - those bottom shingles are still going to get wet and eventually rot.
 
  #5  
Old 09-05-13, 01:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the feedback, guys. PVC board sounds like a promising option, though the height of that bottom row of shingles varies depending on where around the patio you are. Most shingles have an 8"-10" height to the next row up; other parts around the patio are around 6". And of course the shingles are staggered and alternate in height by an inch or so as you go across the row.

It appears 10" PVC boards are available, so I could altogether replace the bottom row of shingles, even for the "tall" areas. I'm just trying to decide how strange it would look to have such a tall board across parts of the patio. Maybe it wouldn't look odd at all. Or perhaps keeping the PVC board limited to 6" and making a "short" row of siding above it would be doable? I'll have to think on this a bit, but am open to suggestions.

Regardless, it sounds like something needs to be done, other than just replacing shingles and resealing, so this doesn't happen again down the road!
 
  #6  
Old 09-05-13, 08:14 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,333
Received 219 Votes on 203 Posts
Yes... getting a 10" board and ripping the bottom edge to match the various levels of grade would be perfect.
 
  #7  
Old 09-06-13, 05:04 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 46,171
Received 131 Votes on 117 Posts
IMO the difference in materials won't be that noticeable after it's painted ...... and it will look like a border anyway less maintenance in the future too
 
  #8  
Old 09-06-13, 05:35 AM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 4,297
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is this house on a slab?
I'd bet when you remove those shakes your going to find some mold and rot at the bottom plates, sheathing and wet insulation.
Someone really messed up by building that patio that high.
The siding and the doors threshold should have been at least 6" above the patio.
 
  #9  
Old 09-06-13, 07:27 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is this house on a slab?
I'd bet when you remove those shakes your going to find some mold and rot at the bottom plates, sheathing and wet insulation.
The house has a stone foundation with a basement, built in the early/mid 40's. I'm sure there will be all sorts of fun stuff to deal with behind those shingles .

Someone really messed up by building that patio that high.
The siding and the doors threshold should have been at least 6" above the patio.
Yeah, this house has been added on to and changed quite a bit over the years. I'm certain this brick patio is not original to the house. And I'm sure when it was first built there was 6" of clearance around the original patio or whatever was there before. They apparently just decided to built on top of the old structure instead of digging down/replacing/etc.

We just moved in a little over a year ago, so I'm slowly finding all the oddities that were left behind due to these types of improper renovations.

I took a couple more photos that show the length of the area I would have to replace. As you can see there are a number of "obstacles" and height variances along the way that I'll have to deal with...fun stuff, huh!

Name:  IMG_0886.jpg
Views: 3110
Size:  24.4 KB

Name:  IMG_0882.jpg
Views: 3248
Size:  45.4 KB

Name:  IMG_0883.jpg
Views: 3318
Size:  49.6 KB
 
Attached Images  

Last edited by tg_andersen; 09-06-13 at 08:45 AM.
  #10  
Old 09-06-13, 09:59 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 46,171
Received 131 Votes on 117 Posts
I'm a painter, not a carpenter but it might be a good idea to remove the 1st row of brick pavers so you can better remove the shingles and the PVC 1xs will be thicker than the shingles.
 
  #11  
Old 09-06-13, 11:38 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'm a painter, not a carpenter but it might be a good idea to remove the 1st row of brick pavers so you can better remove the shingles and the PVC 1xs will be thicker than the shingles.
The more I look at this situation the messier it is getting! @marksr, I assumed that the shingles stopped at the top of the patio, but your comment got me looking at them a little more closely, specifically around the basement window well. Based on the picture below, the shingles drop down behind the pavers a good few inches. If all of them are like this, then yeah, this job just became that much more difficult...

Name:  IMG_0888.jpg
Views: 3536
Size:  26.0 KB
 
  #12  
Old 11-05-14, 06:53 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I know it's been a while on this. I spent a lot of time considering various solutions, many of which were suggested by you fine people here on this forum, and which I utilized. So I thought I'd update this thread with the solution I ended up taking.

Name:  001.jpg
Views: 3093
Size:  47.3 KB
Above is the section I worked on. It was the least "risky" in that this is the wall into the garage which sits on a cement slab (no basement or foundation to worry about)

Name:  002.jpg
Views: 3391
Size:  40.3 KB
Another angle showing the back of the garage wall, which will need to be addressed eventually as well.

Name:  003.jpg
Views: 3025
Size:  51.6 KB
Close-up of some of the wood rot along the wall before I started pulling up bricks and taking shingling off.

Name:  004.jpg
Views: 3317
Size:  48.5 KB
Starting to pull off shingles and encountering more rot. Note that what's left of the shingles extended several inches below the brick patio surface. Even the lowest 1x12 sheathing board under the shingles was rotted, so we had to rip this board out as well, exposing the 2x4 studs behind it (and my garage).

Name:  005.jpg
Views: 3140
Size:  45.9 KB
More bricks pulled up. I actually encountered a large carpenter ant nest while pulling off the shingles, which didn't help things one bit.

Name:  006.jpg
Views: 3652
Size:  50.9 KB
Sill plate was practically rotted all the way through, which detoured me a bit since I didn't really have the expertise to replace this.

Name:  007.jpg
Views: 3231
Size:  50.3 KB
Fortunately, I had a great handyman to help me with the job of replacing the sill plate.

Name:  008.jpg
Views: 6451
Size:  47.2 KB
New sill plate.

Name:  009.jpg
Views: 2889
Size:  52.2 KB
Now for a couple products to help with the waterproofing of this wall:
1. Ice & Water Barrier - normally used in roofing, i settled on this material to serve as a barrier to be placed between the 2x4 studs and a new 1x12 sheathing board, which is made of PVC.
2. NDS Mini Channel - because of the grade of the existing patio anything I do to the wall will still suffer from the problem of water pooling up against it, which I'm certain will just do more damage of some sort over the long run. So I decided to install this channel drain to direct water away from the house. Fortunately, there is a downspout located at the end of the house that connects to a french drain which goes out to the yard.

Name:  010.jpg
Views: 3304
Size:  41.6 KB
Begin installing ice and water shield behind existing shingles.
 
  #13  
Old 11-05-14, 06:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Name:  011.jpg
Views: 2943
Size:  51.1 KB
Another shot of the ice and water shield after it's been stapled into place.

Name:  012.jpg
Views: 2974
Size:  48.2 KB
The stuff is advertised as "self-healing" and so water penetration from stray water through staple or nail holes should be insignificant.

Name:  013.jpg
Views: 3389
Size:  50.0 KB
Install AZEK 12" PVC Trim board over ice and water shield, replacing the original rotted out wood sheathing.

Name:  014.jpg
Views: 3234
Size:  40.5 KB
Close-up of the PVC trim board.

Name:  016.jpg
Views: 3725
Size:  42.0 KB
Wide angle of the work so far.

Name:  016.jpg
Views: 3725
Size:  42.0 KB
Note that the ice and water shield extends below the grade of the brick patio to act as a sort of flashing in case water makes its way behind the trim board or though final caulking between the patio and wall when this job is finished up.

Name:  017.jpg
Views: 3223
Size:  44.6 KB
I wish I would have taken more pictures of the actual process of installing the channel drain, but I just didn't think to do it. Note I still have some rot to deal with on the door frame.

Name:  018.jpg
Views: 3317
Size:  50.4 KB
A closeup shot of the channel drain.

Name:  019.jpg
Views: 3112
Size:  50.2 KB
This is at the corner of the house, a 2" pipe runs into the existing downspot drain, which goes underground into a french drain out in our backyard.

Name:  019b.jpg
Views: 10876
Size:  41.0 KB
Closeup of the channel drain and new wall. I left about a 1/2" gap between the mortar and PVC trim to fill with foam backer rod and DAP Concrete Sealant
 

Last edited by tg_andersen; 11-05-14 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Added hyperlink to product used
  #14  
Old 11-05-14, 07:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Name:  020.jpg
Views: 3168
Size:  49.6 KB
Put in new cedar shingles and paint.


So that's it! Except...what I repaired so far is just a small portion of the overall patio. As you can see from the pictures below I have quite a bit ahead of me! I plan on installing channel drains on only certain parts of the rest of the patio, not all of it. There's serious pooling and draining issue where that bay window meets the sun room that would definitely benefit from a channel drain

Hope this helps anyone out there who might have run into an issue in their own house that is similar to mine!
Name:  021.jpg
Views: 2827
Size:  49.7 KB

Name:  022.jpg
Views: 2923
Size:  49.7 KB
 
  #15  
Old 11-05-14, 07:05 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry for the formatting issue with my previous posts. I had too many pictures to fit into one post so I had to break it up between three new posts, which are now in a somewhat jumbled order when reading from the top of this thread.
 
  #16  
Old 11-05-14, 07:35 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 23,333
Received 219 Votes on 203 Posts
The channel drain was a good move. Nice job.
 
  #17  
Old 11-06-14, 04:29 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 46,171
Received 131 Votes on 117 Posts
Looks good .............
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: