Vinyl Siding and Under Layment

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Old 02-26-19, 03:38 PM
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Vinyl Siding and Under Layment

We just closed on a house and planning to put vinyl sidings on that. There are so many manufacturers for vinyl sidings that its confusing which one is better or which one is more recommended.
Also I am planning rigid foam sheets on top of tyvek protect and then the vinyl siding.
I don't want to use the thermocoal sheets which i have seen being used. I live in NJ and its getting windy and cold. I want to make sure insulation and protection is proper.
Any ideas on what brand vinyl siding to use, for rigid foam insulation i am planning to use dupont rigid foam over tyvek wrap.
Thanks for all your help.
 
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Old 02-26-19, 05:42 PM
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Got a picture of the home so we can all see the possible issues your going to have to deal with when adding foam.
Adding foam other then just fan fold will throw off all the windows, and door trim, and if you have flush gables it's a nightmare to deal with.
To do it right all the window and door trim will need to be built out and wrapped in coil stock before the siding goes on.
There is no "best company" there's dozens of company's that make siding, there's at least 5 or 6 or more different profiles, most companys offer a builders grade siding that's thinner, all depends on what style your looking for, what's avalible in your area.and how much money you want to spend.
I'd suggest going to a real siding distributor in your area, never a box store!
There going to have far more samples to choose from and can explain the differences.
What's on the walls now?
Plan on trying to do this yourself?
https://www.certainteed.com/inspiration/
 
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Old 02-27-19, 07:26 AM
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Hello JoeCaption,
Please see the picture. I am also planning to change whole home windows and doors and roof. Since this is built in 1965 i think its wood siding.
Thanks,
S2k
 
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Old 02-27-19, 09:52 AM
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Adding foam on the exterior adds a few challenges that you have to deal with. Here are a few.

Housewrap under foam is usually unnecessary, since the foam once installed IS a WRB, provided you tape the seams. (4x8 tongue and groove foam works best when installed horizontally with the tongue up) I have found that installing windows on foam can be a real PITA... since the only way to flash the top nailing fin (or the z-flashing over the exterior trim) is to use tape, which I don't trust to stick to the foam forever. Therefore I often advocate housewrap over the foam so that you can skip the tape, and lap the housewrap over the flashings, and door and window heads.

Another problem with installing windows on foam is that the foam is usually not rigid enough to hold the window/door firmly. Plus, if you put the window on top of the foam you have to do both those things together... which often isn't possible because you are often doing those things in different phases from one another. So I usually advocate "windows first." So if you tear out the windows first and you are going to be using 1" foam (in the future), add 1" x 2" of solid wood around the window /door rough opening and install the window nail fin or door on top of that. Later, when you rip off the siding and add the foam you can just go around the windows, add the housewrap, then tape the windows to the housewrap. (Tape sticks better to Tyvek than it does to foam) Plus, all flashing tapes are not equal... some are not sticky at all below 50F, some are better than others.

Adding foam means you will be able to see the bottom of the foam at odd locations... the cantilever in front.... above the bay window roof... bottom edge of the siding in back... so the way to solve that is to bend some aluminum trim coil on a metal break and cap that bottom edge. Then the housewrap lays on top of that flashing.

The foam will also build things out too far on your gable end where it meets the roof. So if you are going to have the roof done, you would need to add some gable trim... crown moulding or just an extra piece of fascia... because the foam plus the siding j-channel needs to be tucked UNDER the fascia so that the fascia can act as a drip edge for the siding j-channel. The time to do this is when your roof is redone (also first) so that the fascia can be built out farther... which means your drip edge and shingles will need to be built out farther.

And then there is the deck ledger. Something you will want to do after you tear off the siding is to try to flash the top and bottom of the deck ledger. It often isn't done correctly so now is the time to do it right. This usually means removing the first deck board so that you can install your flashing on top of the ledger. The bottom deck ledger often gets forgotten about but if it gets skipped it can often be a source of leaks because after you add foam and your siding, the top of the siding will often catch water running down the wall, which can cause leaks in the doors and windows below the ledger.

Those are just a few initial thoughts.
 
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Old 02-27-19, 07:36 PM
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Thank you so much XSleeper.
You gave very good points. Since we are yet not moved in and reading your recomendations here is my plan (sequentially)

1. Replace all the windows ( I am buying windows with J-Channel)
2. Remove the sidings and install the rigid foam tounge and groove. I like to seal the joints even though its tounge and groove.
3. Replace the roof making sure to install the extra piece of facia and/or gable trim (with metal bottom trim)
4. Make sure to cap the bottom edge
5. Wrap the house seal it properly
6. Install new sidings.

Let me know if this will work. I think roof install can be a seperate process but this way i think will be installed properly
 
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Old 02-27-19, 07:41 PM
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Sounds like you have it well in mind. Whereabouts in NJ? Looks nice.
 
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Old 02-28-19, 05:03 AM
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Thanks so much XSleeper.
We are in Parsippany area. I am realtor, like to invest in old homes and restore it. There are too many people knocking down old homes and building new but I like to restore it.
 
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Old 02-28-19, 05:22 AM
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Since you are talking about new siding and windows you could remove your old siding & windows then treat it more like it was new construction. The house could be done in sections to avoid exposing it all to the weather, still a big job though.
 
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Old 02-28-19, 07:54 PM
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Thats very true Pilot Dane. I like that idea also i saw replacement windows are expesive then new construction so it makes much sense.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 07:20 AM
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I started to work on project and removing the sidings. While removing i noticed that there is old sheathing which is very soft. See picture and I don't like the way it is. What is the recommendation?
1. Should i put 1/2 inch plywood sheathing and then put wrap and insulation or insulation on top of old sheathing and vinyl sidings (I just have to make sure if i do this way then my nails go in the frames as the old sheathing will not hold the nails.
2. There is no soffit. Should i remove the wood and just install the soffit or do i need to do something else.
3. If i do 1/2 inch plywood sheathing and insulation while installing windows with j channel i will have to adjust the width after installing windows. should i just use 2x4 or some vinyl under the nail flange of windows or any other recommendations?

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Old 04-03-19, 08:39 AM
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1. Yes, When you have gypsum sheathing you usually want to sheath over it with a minimum of 7/16" osb. You don't HAVE to, but it sure makes siding easier when you do. The problem with putting insulation behind the sheathing is that your nails holding the sheathing will be cantilevered quite far. The nails need to go into at least 1" of the stud. So if the foam is behind the sheathing you can't use any of the typical fasteners for sheathing. So I would recommend (if you are going to do it) that you fasten the new sheathing directly over the old, using minimum 2" long fasteners (sheathing staple or siding gun). Then add insulation and either tape the seams and tape window flanges with tape that sticks forever and ever, or just add housewrap over the foam.

2. You "can" remove the soffit completely but you will need to be prepared to install Styrofoam chutes and insulation under the chutes at the same time. Your insulation in the attic needs to be sufficient... and if / before you add more insulation you would air seal penetrations... sewer pipes, ducts, electrical penetrations, etc. Soffit ventilation works in connection with ridge ventilation, so typically you should have both. It used to be typical to have measured / limited soffit ventilation... in other words, a soffit vent every x amount of feet, based on a careful calculation of attic Sq ft v.s. the sq ft of free area needed for ventilation. That seems to have been thrown out in favor of a "more is better" type of thinking. Personally I prefer the measured method.

3. If I understand your question correctly, I would do what I explained in paragraph 3 of post #4. Solid wood under / around the window flanges will make for a better window install, IMO. You can install windows as a separate step from the foam. Otherwise you will need to remove the windows, throw on the sheathing, foam and housewrap, cut out the rough opening, and install the window.
 
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Old 04-04-19, 06:06 PM
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Hi XSleeper,
Thank you so much for your explanation. I ordered 7/16" sheathing plywood and planning to take out front windows make sure that rough openings are correct so i can install the plywood , wrap and insulation, Windows.
Thanks again for your help.
S2k
 
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