vinyl siding newb questions!


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Old 07-04-21, 02:14 PM
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Question vinyl siding newb questions!

I'm going to be ordering the siding for my home tomorrow. I have a couple questions.

I will be removing all existing cedar shakes and corner boards. Is standard house wrap ( Tyvek) the best water barrier? I see people use foam? board as well.

What specialty tools should I pick up to make my life easier??

Any tips or other things I should consider?
 
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Old 07-04-21, 03:26 PM
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People add fanfold (1/4" insulation) when they are going over clapboard to make a flat surface for the vinyl siding. Others add sheets of 1/2", 3/4", or 1" in hopes of better r value. Neither is a WRB by itself unless the seams and counterflashings are taped, making it waterproof.

The purpose of your WRB is to waterproof the building envelope. Basically the house should not leak after your WRB is on if you spray it with a hose. Because vinyl siding is not waterproof... water can fan out behind the siding at every vertical j channel or corner post. If you have a good WRB, once the vinyl is on, you have nothing to worry about.

Tyvek and Typar are considered some of the best, there are others that are likely better but are pricier and are more for other, more expensive types of cladding.

My best advice would be not to use any of the cheap woven polyethylene types of wraps. They are really bad at keeping water out as they age.

As for tools, you should have a Malco Sideswiper, and for cutting and ripping the siding, use a black abrasive blade (most often used for metal or concrete). They work best for cutting vinyl. You will also need a snap lock punch, used on your top row and above and below windows. Malco SL5 or similar is good enough to do the job.
 
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Old 07-04-21, 03:35 PM
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Afraid this question is going to have more questions then answers.
If your having to ask this where guessing you have never installed siding before.
Adding anything more then just 1/4" thick fan fold will require that all the window and door trim be built out.
What the deal with the windows?
Are they also going to be replaced?
Old old outdated wiring, if so now is the perfect time to replace it.
By far windows and doors are the biggest heat and cooling issues.
 
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Old 07-04-21, 04:08 PM
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Installing your own siding sounds like such a simple job, and it is if you have been doing it for many years.
Even the so called pro's mess it up all the time that have no clue.
Just to name a few, 101 siding install ideas.
What direction to start installing it, If it's done right as your approaching the main entrance you should not be seeing the seams.
An exception can be what direction the prevailing winds are coming from, such as if your water front.
One huge issue is the windows.
Far to many times I've seen where someone had replacement windows installed years ago and now they want to wrap the exposed wood, that's backwards and will cause major challenges
To do it right the window would need to come out, get wrapped, then reinstall the window.
A simple thing like applying the J molding around a window, can be very confusing.


 
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Old 07-05-21, 04:17 PM
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Thanks Joe. Yes, this is my first time siding though I had my own roofing business for 20 years to give you an idea of my general knowledge. Good tips on the direction of the overlap. I did read that while researching proper installation.

To answer your questions I just installed all new construction windows with built in j and new doors with brick molding.I know the Tyvek should have ideally went on first but I happened to have an extra hand around so I took advantage.

Thank you again xsleeper. Someone also recommended j channel notcher and nail hole slot punch. Are these necessary?
 
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Old 07-05-21, 04:43 PM
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Are these necessary?
I don't use them. A tin snips is all I use. Not sure if the notcher is something a newbie would want to use or not. Maybe try watching some youtube videos that show how to cut your j channel corners both ways and decide which way you like best.
 
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Old 07-11-21, 04:40 PM
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I have another question. How do I deal with the siding and old rake boards? Looking at other homes some appear the siding goes under the rake like the cedars in the picture and some use J-channel butted up against the rake board..


 
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Old 07-11-21, 08:21 PM
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Tear the siding off, leave the rake boards. Cedar shingles will usually break off the nails. If it doesn't, run the saw along and cut those few pieces off.
 
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Old 07-12-21, 09:00 AM
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Tear the siding off, leave the rake boards. Cedar shingles will usually break off the nails. If it doesn't, run the saw along and cut those few pieces off.
If I can get the cedar out from behind the rake boards, should I then also run the vinyl behind the rake boards or just tuck the house wrap under there and run J-channel along the bottom of the rake boards?
 
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Old 07-12-21, 03:56 PM
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Either way. If j channel won't fit, just omit the j channel and run the vinyl under.
 
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Old 07-14-21, 05:18 PM
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Does anyone happen to know of a good source that explains the proper way to install house wrap on a house with windows already installed? All the tutorials I have come across are on new construction before windows are installed.
 
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Old 07-14-21, 05:34 PM
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Can't see your windows so it's hard to say what to do. Are they already trimmed? Or have you exposed the nail fins?
 
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Old 07-14-21, 06:38 PM
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Can't see your windows so it's hard to say what to do. Are they already trimmed? Or have you exposed the nail fins?
No trim, they are new construction windows with integrated J and besides the flashing tape over the fin, the nail fin is exposed. The rest of the cedar siding as well as corner boards and trim will all be removed down to the plywood.

 
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Old 07-14-21, 08:05 PM
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You would pretty much do it as shown in this video, after the 1:00 mark

https://youtu.be/C6sP4kwSa5c
 
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Old 07-14-21, 08:16 PM
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Perfect! That is what I needed
 
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Old 07-16-21, 02:43 PM
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I'm actually going to be starting the siding tomorrow so obviously so many questions are running through my head so please bear with me.

1) All of the videos I looked at for installing vinyl soffit over wood say to place a J-channel along the wall and nail it to the underside of your soffit. On the lower overhang on the front of my house there is no soffit so what do I do there??

2. How should I stagger the siding? I couldn't find any information on this.

3. How do you determine where to snap a line for the top of the starter strip?

4. Any tips on how to make sure the vinyl corners are square?
 
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Old 07-16-21, 03:15 PM
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1). Of course there is soffit. If there wasn't you would be able to stick your head right up between the floor joists.

2). The only places you need to worry about your stagger is the space below windows where the wall is longer than the siding is. You NEVER want to put in a butt joint if you don't need to. So for example in your last photo you will only have 3 or 4 butt joints left and right of the door (below windows) and maybe above the front door if that's longer than your siding is. Personally I prefer joints to be stairstepped and no closer than 48". Often, you just take the piece you cut off on the right and start the next row on the left with it. Factory end to factory end at butt joints. Cut edges go into the j channels, leaving 1/4" of space for expansion and contraction.

3. It would help to know what siding you're using. Lets say you are assuming that your upper soffit is a straight line and that you are using double 5 siding. If you want to wind up with a full row on top, the bottom edge of every row will be an increment of 10", as measured from your soffit. And if your starter strip is 3" wide, you would just measure down, say 110"... minus 3, to mark the top edge of the starter strip. It will take some figuring to decide where you want to start with starter strip and where you will want to start in a finish trim or utility J. The amount that the bottom edge of your siding hangs over your lower soffit is a little bit flexible... so it might be that you want to start THAT in your starter strip, and start your lowest course above ground level in a utility J by ripping it to a custom width. The distance from the bottom edge of that lowest course to the bottom edge of the upper course will help you determine what you have to do, since it all needs to line up at the corners by the door. Ideally that number (from the bottom edge of the lowest course to the bottom edge of the upper course) would be a nice round number like 40"... so that you could use a starter strip to start both those seperate sections. The short pieces left and right of the front door will be rips.

4. Well, I eyeball them. But if you wanted to be exact, just take a speed square, stick it behind the corner post (to hold the corner open so it is perfectly square) and measure the distance from the back of one nailing fin to the outside edge of the other. Then mark that on each side of your corner at top and bottom and snap a chalk line. Then put them up by following the lines. Or throw a combination square on the outside of them as you install them. You would have to have pretty crooked eyes to not be able to look at it and get it square enough.

Try to optimize your cuts by figuring out what cut pieces would go where. It can save you a lot of waste.
 
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Old 07-16-21, 03:29 PM
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1). Of course there is soffit. If there wasn't you would be able to stick your head right up between the floor joists.
I'm sorry, I said soffit but meant nailing the opposite side into the wooden FASCIA board . There is no Fascia on the lower overhang.
 
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Old 07-16-21, 03:43 PM
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You can do it at least 2 ways. Put a j channel in front and let the siding j hold up the soffit in back since it would go underneath it. Or put a soffit j in back and then cap the front edge with an F after the soffit is up. Or make your own cap with trim coil and a metal brake.
 
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Old 07-16-21, 04:12 PM
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You can do it at least 2 ways. Put a j channel in front and let the siding j hold up the soffit in back since it would go underneath it. Or put a soffit j in back and then cap the front edge with an F after the soffit is up.
I think I got it. So if I capped the front edge with an F channel the nailing fin would go behind the starter strip on the higher half of the house, correct? Do you think this is the best way to do it? I'd have to pick up some F but no big deal.
 
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Old 07-16-21, 04:26 PM
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If you go that route, yes. And I misspoke... you would put the F up first. If you were capping it with an L, the L would go up last.

When working with vinyl soffit, (I detest the stuff but have to use it sometimes) I kind of like using truss head screws instead of nails. Lath screws some call them.
 
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Old 07-16-21, 05:51 PM
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Ok, I'll have a look at it tomorrow but I think I will go with the white soffit J in the back and an L cap in the front. Seeing that will more closely match how the the top soffit will be. I will also pick up some truss head screws tomorrow as it will probably make my life a little easier!

I don't have a break yet as I planned on renting one at the end of the job for a day to wrap all the wood. Do they sell white vinyl L for things like that lower soffit?
 
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Old 07-16-21, 07:18 PM
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The most common thing they would have like that would be 4" fascia cover. Im sure someone makes a white L but I bet you would have to buy a whole box.
 
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Old 07-18-21, 05:26 PM
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3. It would help to know what siding you're using. Lets say you are assuming that your upper soffit is a straight line and that you are using double 5 siding. If you want to wind up with a full row on top, the bottom edge of every row will be an increment of 10", as measured from your soffit. And if your starter strip is 3" wide, you would just measure down, say 110"... minus 3, to mark the top edge of the starter strip. It will take some figuring to decide where you want to start with starter strip and where you will want to start in a finish trim or utility J. The amount that the bottom edge of your siding hangs over your lower soffit is a little bit flexible... so it might be that you want to start THAT in your starter strip, and start your lowest course above ground level in a utility J by ripping it to a custom width. The distance from the bottom edge of that lowest course to the bottom edge of the upper course will help you determine what you have to do, since it all needs to line up at the corners by the door. Ideally that number (from the bottom edge of the lowest course to the bottom edge of the upper course) would be a nice round number like 40"... so that you could use a starter strip to start both those seperate sections. The short pieces left and right of the front door will be rips.
We had rain all day yesterday and today so I was only able to rip the siding off and Tyvek. Tomorrow the weather is supposed to be great so I will for sure be starting the siding.

I'm having a little trouble following this. First off, I am using double 4 not double 5 ( sorry, I should have mentioned that). I measured both the lower and upper half and got 53" on the bottom and 89.75" on the top for a total of 142.75" .

Not sure if I'm shooting for a full row when I get to the higher tier bottom course or am I shooting for a full row at the very top against the top soffit?

EDIT: ADDED ANOTHER QUESTION

If you go that route, yes. And I misspoke... you would put the F up first. If you were capping it with an L, the L would go up last.
I'm also a little confused by this. Installing the soffit J on the back wall first and then f last makes more sense in my head. Not sure what I'm not understanding..

NEVER MIND , I understand now. You cant put the F in after the soffit because you have to nail/screw the soffit ends!
 

Last edited by rufunky; 07-18-21 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 07-18-21, 06:32 PM
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Because it's a heck of a lot easier to slip individual pieces of soffit into the f channel than it is to try and slip the f channel over all your soffit after it has all been installed.

I'm probably not going to be able to tell you exactly what to do with your layout without being there. You will have to figure it out. I will say that I would try to do whatever i could to get the upper tier to start in a starter strip. They make longer starter strips you could use if need be. If its 53 on bottom, it might be 52 3/8" or so once your soffit is on. And if you can start the siding just a little higher on bottom (like 3/8" higher than it currently is) that might help your cause. Because you would be shooting for 52" with double 4. That would enable you to start the lowest course in a starter and start the upper course in a starter.

Or you might find that it helps your cause to install a 1x2 across the front and back of your lower soffit, which shortens that side by making the soffit 3/4" lower than it currently is... this might enable you to start your bottom siding in the same place it currently is or just a little lower than the exising, and still be under 52". The bottom edge of your upper siding starter needs to cover the f channel and soffit below.

You would need to think on this carefully since where you start the siding will determine the size of your rips under windows, where the bottom edge of the siding will be along your higher tier and at the top where you meet the soffit. Draw it out if it helps.
 
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Old 07-18-21, 07:17 PM
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I'm probably not going to be able to tell you exactly what to do with your layout without being there. You will have to figure it out.
I understand, I think once I have the soffit J and siding J up I can calculate a little easier.

And if you can start the siding just a little higher on bottom (like 3/8" higher than it currently is) that might help your cause. Because you would be shooting for 52" with double 4. That would enable you to start the lowest course in a starter and start the upper course in a starter.
I should have mentioned the measurements on both higher and lower tier were taken from the bottom of plywood to soffit ( Not bottom of current siding ). So I would be shooting for 56" to the bottom of the second tier starter strip correct?

 
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Old 07-18-21, 08:18 PM
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No, 52". That's why I suggested shimming the soffit down if you need to, in case it helps you out. Your nail fins will be offset 4" from lower to upper. So the nail fins left and right of the door will be 4" higher or lower than the nail fins on the lower courses.

For the bottom edge, make some flashing out of brake metal if you have to, to flash the bottom edge of your plywood so that you cover up your wrb and water runs off it. That will allow you to put the starter strip wherever you like, since you would see the trim coil under it instead of your wrb.

You will want your upper starter strip to hang down over your lower soffit about 1" to act as a drip edge. So if the lower siding hight is maybe 53" after your soffit is on, your siding above would actually hang 1" below that so as to start the upper course at 52" above your lowest starter strip. Similar to the way your cedar siding hangs over your existing soffit. The 53" side would snap up into a utility J, assuming you have some of that.

So in a nutshell, once your lower soffit is on, plan for your starter strip to hang below that soffit a little bit. Anywhere from 1/2" to 1 1/2"... and measure down from the bottom of that starter strip 52" to determine where thr lowest starter strip will go. If that makes sense.
 
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Old 07-19-21, 03:28 PM
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So in a nutshell, once your lower soffit is on, plan for your starter strip to hang below that soffit a little bit. Anywhere from 1/2" to 1 1/2"... and measure down from the bottom of that starter strip 52" to determine where thr lowest starter strip will go. If that makes sense.
OK, I didn't get as far as I wanted basically because I don't know what I'm doing and had to you tube as I went ( I'll spear you the details) ..

I got to the point where I could take some measurements.

-The bottom tier from the bottom of the plywood to the soffit J channel is 51 3/4
-The top tier starter strip overhangs the bottom tier soffit J 3/4"

I think that means if I over hang the bottom tier starter strip 1/2 " past the plywood It will give me the 52" I am looking for?

One more measurement I took was from the bottom of the top tier starter strip to the bottom of the window. That measurement is 41 3/4".

I'm hoping you can help me figure this out because I literally worked on this my whole day off and got nothing done :/
 
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Old 07-19-21, 03:38 PM
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In order for the upper siding to hang down 3/4 you would need to shoot for 52 3/4 on that lowest tier. If you have the soffit installed, install the top j channel for the siding underneath it. Then put your tape inside that j channel and the bottom of your starter strip could be 52 3/4" down from that. You will put a finish trim inside that j channel that will receive your last piece of siding. You can hold that finish trim down 1/2" instead of shoving it all the way up. You rip the nail fin off of that top row of siding so that its 8" wide. Then you use your punch to put some tabs every 16" or so to lock it up into the finish trim so that it can't fall out.

Another trick you could use is to install a double j channel above your lowest tier of siding. But i don't want to confuse you. It would help in this instance if you wanted to hit your 52" exactly, because of the thickness of adding another J. Would turn 52 3/4 of space into 52.

Hope you got all the soffit on, because that is what I would be doing first.
 
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Old 07-19-21, 05:02 PM
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In order for the upper siding to hang down 3/4 you would need to shoot for 52 3/4 on that lowest tier. If you have the soffit installed, install the top j channel for the siding underneath it. Then put your tape inside that j channel and the bottom of your starter strip could be 52 3/4" down from that. You will put a finish trim inside that j channel that will receive your last piece of siding. You can hold that finish trim down 1/2" instead of shoving it all the way up. You rip the nail fin off of that top row of siding so that its 8" wide. Then you use your punch to put some tabs every 16" or so to lock it up into the finish trim so that it can't fall out.


Hope you got all the soffit on, because that is what I would be doing first.
I have not installed the soffit yet I can start that after work tomorrow.

Ok, I took a scrap J, hung it under the soffit J and installed the bottom tier starter strip with an overhang of 1" and came up just shy of 52 3/4. Looks like 1/8" so I guess I need to lower the starter another 1/8".

While researching online, I noticed that some people installed the inside corner up against the soffit and some below the soffit J. I chose below the soffit J is this correct?

Also, not to work backwards but I may have to take the soffit F channel off of the front overhang. For what ever reason, they extended the soffit plywood about a 1/4" past the plywood on front top tier. Is it like that for a reason? or should i take a Reciprocating saw and cut it flush?? ( picture below)

 

Last edited by rufunky; 07-19-21 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 07-19-21, 05:42 PM
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Yes trim that plywood back. I would do soffit first and everything else will butt up under it.
 
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Old 07-20-21, 02:52 PM
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Question of the day.

Just trying to fix that plywood overhang tonight. Is the soffit F ( and J for that matter ) supposed to over lap?? Or is that just for around windows/doors etc? Because I couldn't find anything on overlapping soffit J or F..
 

Last edited by rufunky; 07-20-21 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 07-20-21, 05:24 PM
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No they butt together.
 
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Old 07-24-21, 03:44 PM
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You would pretty much do it as shown in this video, after the 1:00 mark

https://youtu.be/C6sP4kwSa5c
I'm so frustrated right now. I screwed up by calking and sticky flashing the windows without putting the Tyvek under the nailing fin and sticky flashing. There is no way for me to peel back the tape without destroying it. I feel so defeated as I took the day off to finish ripping and tyveking the front of the house before another thunder storm comes in tommorow. I am not sure what to do....


 
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Old 07-24-21, 04:35 PM
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You could just double tape it. Keep the Tyvek down about 3" on bottom then tape it once, keeping the first layer of tape below the nail fin. Then take another piece of tape, rip it in half so you aren't wasting tape and tape the bottom fin. Then the side tape laps over that.

don't feel too bad, lots of carpenters run into the same situation when residing and that's the best you can do.

Be sure the surfaces are as clean as possible and use a j roller to ensure a good bond.
 
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Old 07-24-21, 06:41 PM
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You could just double tape it. Keep the Tyvek down about 3" on bottom then tape it once, keeping the first layer of tape below the nail fin. Then take another piece of tape, rip it in half so you aren't wasting tape and tape the bottom fin. Then the side tape laps over that.
Sorry, I'm exhausted I'm still outside cleaning up.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying I should do.

 
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Old 07-25-21, 12:53 PM
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Is this what you ae saying?

-Place the Tyvek about 3" down from the existing flashing tape keeping the new tape just below the nail fin.
-Tape again overlapping overlapping both the naiol fin and the Tyvek tape. (I left the last piece of tape out so as not to make a mess of the diagram.)

Also, am when we say tape, are we talking about the Tyvek tape that goes on the seems of the sticky silver flashing tape??


 
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Old 07-25-21, 01:01 PM
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You have the right idea, but you would apply one big sheet across that whole side of the house like they show in the video, then just cut out around your windows, being careful not to slice into the window or the butyl tape that is already there.

Then I would tape to the existing butyl tape (such as tyvek straightflash) with more butyl tape... not using the Tyvek seam tape for that. That is for taping tyvek to tyvek.

You don't need a seperate piece under the windows since your windows are already done... you didn't install windows as shown in the tyvek video and you can't go back. So yeah, I am saying cut the tyvek out away from the butyl tape, then tape the bottom twice with more butyl tape. Once where you have it drawn in blue, again over the entire bottom nail fin... tape sides once, covering the nailing fins.
 
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Old 07-25-21, 03:44 PM
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So yeah, I am saying cut the tyvek out away from the butyl tape, then tape the bottom twice with more butyl tape. Once where you have it drawn in blue, again over the entire bottom nail fin... tape sides once, covering the nailing fins.
Ok, so on the bottom windows I tape flashed the sill and sides, installed the window, nailed the fin, tape flashed over the nails, tyveked one complete piece right over the windows, cut around the windows leaving about 1" reveal of the tape flashing, tyvek taped the tyvek down to the tape flashing.

Should I have used the tape flashing around to tape the tyvek to the tape flashing or should I have not put the tape flashing over the nail fin until I installed the tyvek?



 
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Old 07-25-21, 08:43 PM
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Also, I have a light fixture over the door that is basically just a wire that comes through a hole with no electrical box. Should I just put the siding over it and drill a hole for the wire and place a double 4 "surface mount" light block over the new siding or should I be installing a recessed light block before I side??
 
 

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