Re-building a Privacy Fence-Permits Codes Long beach CA
#1
01-28-08, 06:18 PM
Re-building a Privacy Fence-Permits Codes Long beach CA
Re-building a Privacy Fence-Permits Codes Long beach CA
I'm a Landlord. I have a four unit property.
A 3 bedroom 2 bath SFH and a detatched building with 3 2 bedroom apartments. I have a section of fence that was knocked over with the high winds we have had as of late. I took it the rest of the way down.
Bought the materials needed to rebuild it and now I want to get a permit to do it proper.
This property is in Long Beach CA. The old fence was a 2 rail frame with red wood grape sticks nailed on it. I want to replace with pressure treated 4x4 wood posts. Pressure treated 2x4 two rail frame and 4" or 6" wide by 6' tall red wood dog ear slats.
I called building and planning of Long Beach CA and asked what I needed to re-build the fence. Do I need a permit? Do I need plans?
The guy told me I need a building permit.
Me:
Do you have specs on height and all?
Building Department:
You can draw it all out here. All you need is your measurements.
Me:
Don't I have to have so many feet between posts? How many rails? etc.
Building Department:
No you just need a general building permit.
Me:
(Doh!) Is there some where online I can access this information?
Building Department:
Yes go to
http://www.longbeach.gov/plan/
Click on the permits. You want a building permit application.
So I go looking around again. The general building permit isn't squat. I go looking in "Help for the home builder." 103 pages.
There is stuff on a block wall page 71.
Info on a fence around a pool or spa page 42.
That is it?
Don't you have to have like a blue print, a drawing and isn't there specs for fences in the city of Long Beach CA? Like how deep the post holes have to be?
I won't have any property line issues as this is the outside of a corner piece of property. It's also set into the property from the side walk about 6 feet. And up on a concrete rise about 4 foot high. It's the side yard off of the house, off of the kitchen.
Thanks for any info you can provide. I haven't done this task before. It can't be a secret or difficult. Just trying to find the parameters to comply with proper building procedures.
#2
01-28-08, 07:04 PM
Member
Re-building a Privacy Fence-Permits Codes Long beach CA
Because of the volume, you are probably facing a prescriptive code for many different types of walls that may be built in Long Beach.
In order to make them "idiot proof" and easy to inspect, codes are written in a prescriptive manner with references to the building code legally in effect at the time (which may not be the most current).
It is not that difficult, but all options are included because different developments require different types of fences. Many will not allow "grape stake" fences any more.
Try to search out the requirements for the type of fence you plan on. Make sure that type is permitted in your area. Because of the inflation of property values, fencing requirements have been upgraded. Also, recent history on fence problems with fires and seismic activities have change what is acceptable and what can be built NOW.
Your next step is to visit the plan office in person - defininitely not a phone call. When you are there, face-to-face, you will probably be able to make things much easier since the plan and code people do not want to make their jobs more difficult. If you just wantnformation, you will find them helpful, but if they are challenged, they will react like anybody else.
Dick
In order to make them "idiot proof" and easy to inspect, codes are written in a prescriptive manner with references to the building code legally in effect at the time (which may not be the most current).
It is not that difficult, but all options are included because different developments require different types of fences. Many will not allow "grape stake" fences any more.
Try to search out the requirements for the type of fence you plan on. Make sure that type is permitted in your area. Because of the inflation of property values, fencing requirements have been upgraded. Also, recent history on fence problems with fires and seismic activities have change what is acceptable and what can be built NOW.
Your next step is to visit the plan office in person - defininitely not a phone call. When you are there, face-to-face, you will probably be able to make things much easier since the plan and code people do not want to make their jobs more difficult. If you just wantnformation, you will find them helpful, but if they are challenged, they will react like anybody else.
Dick
#3
01-30-08, 03:43 PM
JoshCA,
Welcome to the world of building departments and permits!!
The City of Long Beach says you ned a permit -- you need a permit. More than likely it'll be over the counter -- probably about $50.
You'll need a plot plan. That's easy -- go to the City bldg. dept. and ask them for a copy of what they have on file. Take that to Kinko's and get a copy of it.
On that copy, sketch in the "proposed replacement of the existing fence" where it goes. On a clean sheet of paper, you will need to draw a detail. One part will show the "typical fence panel" -- 6 ft. high fence boards, show the 2X4 rails and how they are attached to the post, the size and how high the posts are, and how deep you will be embedding them in the footing. Sketch the footing -- an 8" diam. hole at 24" deep, filled with concrete to within 4 or 5" of the top of the hole. (That leaves you enough depth above the concrete that you could get grass to grow there. The other option would be to bring the concrete to or slightly above grade and slope the top of the footing away from the post for drainage.)
What you are doing is giving them a plan so they have a way to inspect it -- to see that it is being built according to that plan. The drawing has to be clear and readable, but you won't be graded on the artwork!! It's not something that you need to pay a draftsman to do and make blueprints of.
Take your stuff to Kinko's and make 3 copies of it. Turn that in along with the completed permit application, showing you as "owner/builder". You should be able to walk away from the counter within about 15 minutes with your permit in hand.
Different places, different jurisdictions, and different requirements. For a fence that is 6' tall or less, a permit wouldn't be required here. But yiou would have to look at the distance from the fence to the street and make sure that it falls within the City's fence ordinance so it's not a hazard as far as obstructing vision.
Welcome to the world of building departments and permits!!
The City of Long Beach says you ned a permit -- you need a permit. More than likely it'll be over the counter -- probably about $50.
You'll need a plot plan. That's easy -- go to the City bldg. dept. and ask them for a copy of what they have on file. Take that to Kinko's and get a copy of it.
On that copy, sketch in the "proposed replacement of the existing fence" where it goes. On a clean sheet of paper, you will need to draw a detail. One part will show the "typical fence panel" -- 6 ft. high fence boards, show the 2X4 rails and how they are attached to the post, the size and how high the posts are, and how deep you will be embedding them in the footing. Sketch the footing -- an 8" diam. hole at 24" deep, filled with concrete to within 4 or 5" of the top of the hole. (That leaves you enough depth above the concrete that you could get grass to grow there. The other option would be to bring the concrete to or slightly above grade and slope the top of the footing away from the post for drainage.)
What you are doing is giving them a plan so they have a way to inspect it -- to see that it is being built according to that plan. The drawing has to be clear and readable, but you won't be graded on the artwork!! It's not something that you need to pay a draftsman to do and make blueprints of.
Take your stuff to Kinko's and make 3 copies of it. Turn that in along with the completed permit application, showing you as "owner/builder". You should be able to walk away from the counter within about 15 minutes with your permit in hand.
Different places, different jurisdictions, and different requirements. For a fence that is 6' tall or less, a permit wouldn't be required here. But yiou would have to look at the distance from the fence to the street and make sure that it falls within the City's fence ordinance so it's not a hazard as far as obstructing vision.
#4
01-31-08, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by lefty
JoshCA,
Welcome to the world of building departments and permits!!
The City of Long Beach says you ned a permit -- you need a permit. More than likely it'll be over the counter -- probably about $50.
You'll need a plot plan. That's easy -- go to the City bldg. dept. and ask them for a copy of what they have on file. Take that to Kinko's and get a copy of it.
On that copy, sketch in the "proposed replacement of the existing fence" where it goes. On a clean sheet of paper, you will need to draw a detail. One part will show the "typical fence panel" -- 6 ft. high fence boards, show the 2X4 rails and how they are attached to the post, the size and how high the posts are, and how deep you will be embedding them in the footing. Sketch the footing -- an 8" diam. hole at 24" deep, filled with concrete to within 4 or 5" of the top of the hole. (That leaves you enough depth above the concrete that you could get grass to grow there. The other option would be to bring the concrete to or slightly above grade and slope the top of the footing away from the post for drainage.)
What you are doing is giving them a plan so they have a way to inspect it -- to see that it is being built according to that plan. The drawing has to be clear and readable, but you won't be graded on the artwork!! It's not something that you need to pay a draftsman to do and make blueprints of.
Take your stuff to Kinko's and make 3 copies of it. Turn that in along with the completed permit application, showing you as "owner/builder". You should be able to walk away from the counter within about 15 minutes with your permit in hand.
Different places, different jurisdictions, and different requirements. For a fence that is 6' tall or less, a permit wouldn't be required here. But you would have to look at the distance from the fence to the street and make sure that it falls within the City's fence ordinance so it's not a hazard as far as obstructing vision.
Welcome to the world of building departments and permits!!
The City of Long Beach says you ned a permit -- you need a permit. More than likely it'll be over the counter -- probably about $50.
You'll need a plot plan. That's easy -- go to the City bldg. dept. and ask them for a copy of what they have on file. Take that to Kinko's and get a copy of it.
On that copy, sketch in the "proposed replacement of the existing fence" where it goes. On a clean sheet of paper, you will need to draw a detail. One part will show the "typical fence panel" -- 6 ft. high fence boards, show the 2X4 rails and how they are attached to the post, the size and how high the posts are, and how deep you will be embedding them in the footing. Sketch the footing -- an 8" diam. hole at 24" deep, filled with concrete to within 4 or 5" of the top of the hole. (That leaves you enough depth above the concrete that you could get grass to grow there. The other option would be to bring the concrete to or slightly above grade and slope the top of the footing away from the post for drainage.)
What you are doing is giving them a plan so they have a way to inspect it -- to see that it is being built according to that plan. The drawing has to be clear and readable, but you won't be graded on the artwork!! It's not something that you need to pay a draftsman to do and make blueprints of.
Take your stuff to Kinko's and make 3 copies of it. Turn that in along with the completed permit application, showing you as "owner/builder". You should be able to walk away from the counter within about 15 minutes with your permit in hand.
Different places, different jurisdictions, and different requirements. For a fence that is 6' tall or less, a permit wouldn't be required here. But you would have to look at the distance from the fence to the street and make sure that it falls within the City's fence ordinance so it's not a hazard as far as obstructing vision.
It went way different than I expected. Went to the 4th floor of city hall which is our building department. Checked in told them I need to rebuild a fence that blew down. Do I need a permit for a rebuild? Yes you do was the answer. That I didn't know the process. To please clue me in. Handed me some forms, 2 pencils one red one regular. Told me to go sit down at the tables and draw out the fence. Gave me a #.
I started filling out the forms. My number is called in like 3 mins. The poindexer behind the counter draws the thing out for me. Great!
He draws the start of fence in the wrong area. So we go to a over head view of the property which are the archives from 2004. He has a monitor and I have a monitor. He Zooms in I point out the exact area of the fence. He redraws it.
Wait for all of 5mins. My number is called again. Go to the other counter with a desktop model inspector lol who processes the Building permit application. What a character this guy is.
36' of fence on the long side. 7' on the short side. Absolutely ZERO info on specs. Nothing written in the paper work either. So I asked about the grape stake. He said they don't suggest that material because it's hard to find. That it's not as appealing to the eye as other fence materials. I ask about how deep the holes need to be for the posts. Reply is 24". I tell him that I'm using 8' treated 4x4 wood posts. Treated 2x4 by 8'. Red wood dog ear pickets 6"x6'. Using deck screws to attach. He says perfect. You have the right materials.
Desktop=Inspector said that the inspector will take a look at the fence and shake it.
Say: "Yup that is a fence!" sign it off.
That I build the fence and call for inspection when it's completed. That fences are not that big of a deal. Just go knock it out now and get it behind me.
On the 7' section of this fence. The current 7' section has the 4x4 post bolted into the outside wall/corner of the kitchen exterior wall. I'm planning to remove that. Seal up the wall proper. Sink the post in cement as close as possible to the wall. I think that is better. But will it work?
Or will I run into the foundation under that dirt as soon as I try to dig my post hole?
I WISH the permit cost $50 bucks.
KeyRist fence permit was $245.48!
The materials cost me around $450.00 LOL
Another friend was right on the mark when he said:
"All they want is the fees."
Which makes me re-think this whole thing. Wouldn't it be less expensive to build the fence without the permit. Then if the A-Mole x-tenant that I evicted for non-payment, calls code and code enforcement on the fence like he has been doing on anything and everything he can stir up real or false. They come out write up a notice and I comply. By what? Getting permits? Or that it is up to code. If it's just up to code then I don't have to pay anything?
What a strange system if that is the way it plays out.
I do want to play by the rules. But these fees seem way too high. I think the inspection fee is up there tho. So maybe the fees are in line? I dunno. The contractor's pull the permits and it's included in the cost of the job.
This is the first time I've pulled my own permit.
So I take it that no matter what you do. If you were to
repair the fence by using the grape stakes and replacing the posts and 2x4's it would still need a permit. It's not ever considered a repair?
Where do you draw the line in the sand between repairs
re-build/new build?
