Unusual fence/ gate question

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  #1  
Old 08-01-13, 11:53 AM
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Unusual fence/ gate question

I have a stucco house and a side fence that's about 56" away. I'd like to install a gate to separate the fenced in walkway (mainly to separate the backyard from the side yard and keep my pets in the backyard). Unfortunately, the walkway is paved so there's no open area to install a fence post next to the house. What I was thinking was the following:

Build a short fence frame (18" W x 7' tall) and attach this frame to an existing fence post 56" away from house. Bottom of this narrow frame would be touching the ground. The frame would be constructed out of 2x4's wtih 2 fence panels on one side.

Buy a "redwood lattice top gate" form home depot (38"x72"x1.75") and attach this to the fence frame to be used as a gate via gate hinges.

My question is whether this "free hanging" gate will work or is strong enough hanging off the fence frame (which is attached to an existing fence post). Is it okay to have my fence frame touches the concrete ground?

Secondly, is there a way to lock this gate since the swinging side will be next to the stucco house? Are there cheap hinges that lock on the hinge side rather than the swinging latch side?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

jack
 
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Old 08-01-13, 04:02 PM
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Why can't you chop a hole in the cement & install a post? It's not a major job.
 
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Old 08-01-13, 08:35 PM
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What you're proposing sounds a bit flimsy to me, not likely to be very secure.

I suspect you don't have a "stucco house," as stucco is just a decorative exterior coating, usually applied to sheathing on a conventionally-framed house. It would be far easier to just install a treated 4 x 4 post attached to the house, securing it through drilled holes in the stucco to a wall stud. Using ledgerlok bolts (7" long bolts needed, unless you counter-bore the 4 x 4) would minimize the chance of splitting the stud.
 
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Old 08-02-13, 09:51 AM
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Pulpo: I guess I didn't know how to create a hole in concrete for a post nor do I have the tools for it. In particular, the concrete slab of the side yard is very thin and I was worried I'd crack it trying to make space for a post.Do you have any suggestions for making the hole in a thin sheet of concrete?
 
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Old 08-02-13, 09:55 AM
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BirdgeMan45: Yeah, it is a bit flimsy. But really, I just need it to be strong enough to keep cats penned in. This gate would rely on a post that sits on top of concrete and attached to a fence post via 18" 2x4's connectors. Do you think it would have a high change of breaking when the door is opened/ closed. Really, the door would usually be closed and very rarely opened. A friend suggested putting in an L-rod to secure the door to the ground near the latch end.

Yes, stucco meaning stucco covering on top of a wood frame. So you're recommending drilling and attaching a wood post into the house? Ok, that is an option though I'd like to minimize modification to the house for future resale purposes. This gate really only applies to my situation of keeping a smalled penned in area for the cats in the back yard. But I appreciate your advice on how to install the post. Thanks!
 
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Old 08-02-13, 06:59 PM
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Yes, you can use a masonry blade on a circle saw to outline where you want the post. That way it won't damage all the cement.
 
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Old 08-02-13, 07:09 PM
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Or even the concrete.

Cement is a fluffy gray powder that comes in bags or bulk.
 
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Old 08-03-13, 03:55 PM
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I know the difference but I can't see his house, so I don't know what he has there.
 
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Old 08-03-13, 04:23 PM
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If he does have cement and not concrete, he won't have to do any sawcutting or "chopping" as you suggested. Just push his post down into the fluffy, gray stuff as deep as he wants it to go.
 
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Old 08-03-13, 07:10 PM
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I'm sure he'll be happy to hear that. My guess is that he will leave it all in tact & connect the post to the wall. Why push or chop when it's not needed? Be like me & go to the beach instead.
 
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Old 08-06-13, 03:11 AM
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Ok, You have cats that you wish to contain. You have already come to understand that the fence design that you propose is in fact flimsy... Yes, but not only just flimsy it is just purely unsafe. I understand that all you need to maintain is containment for your cats, but what about people... Lets just say that someone who is not native to your home see's the gate opening and decides to use it as an accessway to your yard? The gate design seems too heavy for the frame , post and or hinge side to support. It seems to me that although you are only looking to contain your cats you do need to put a little more cost and a little more work into the job to safely enclose your yard.

quick fix;

First off... I never adhere a latch or post or any type of device to the side of a house. I have in the past modified pre-existing latches that have been pre-installed , but I would never actually install such a device to the side of a home. It just makes no sense to dig, drill or bolt into the side of a home when there usually is another option that would prevent damage to the side of a home... inside the wall of the home or otherwise allow the elements to enter the home through the drilled holes. Its just not my idea of professional.

Ok, in regards to the thin set cement walkway..

Score a line with the saw blade as previously mentioned. Chisel out with the flat end of a tamping bar.. chisel or even a heavy hammer...and chisel.
cut a line about 8x8 inches square.
Once the cement is broken through, dig out the soil below ground. Dig about 24-30 inches.
Install one 4 x 4 pressure treated post , assuming the overall height to exceed the height of the fence assuming a post cap or some other decorative topper.
The post, assuming you have it level and the surrounding soil in the hole tamped solid around the post... Back fill the hole surrounding the post with cement, Up to the top of the surrounding cement walk way, tight around the wood post allowing no spaces around the post.
Keep in mind, for every time you level the post, keep leveling it again and again until you are completely finished for the day and walking away.
This is a two day job. One to install the fence posts, One to to let the cement set up and the second to install the actual gate to the post, and screw latches onto the latch post.

The hinge side... I do understand that you are trying to make up the width of a 56 inch walk way. Well now, with the 4x4 against the house but not directly on the house you are probably at about a 48-51 inch opening. This is still a pretty heavy gate...Especially it being a 6 foot high solid panel gate with 2 x 4 frame.

My suggestion would be to design this gate to swing one way, inside or out does not matter.
My suggestion would be to install one gate post at the very end of the walk way. It would be the last post in the line of the side... with side panel attached to it, bypassing the post at least 6 inches. Making the gate opening less than 4 feet wide, creating a lighter gate panel.

In this with the use of strap hinges you can build a gate frame to whatever desired width, swinging one direction. The gate and the width of the gate is your choice.. The latch, is also your choice. But for sure once you install the two posts, one against the house in cement and the other on the very edge of the walkway in cement, this gate will be so much more secure than in your original design.

Gate posts... Should be cemented. They do not always have to be, but it is a good practice to cement gate posts.
Plus the cemented post on the hinge side will give you a finished look on your walkway. Where the wood post meets the cement base.

Note..

When installing the post on the house side (Latch post) keep the post at least an inch away from the side of the house. This allows for future siding repairs or changes to your stucco or otherwise exterior home design updates.

For the most part you were not too far off the mark as to how to install your fence, gate ,,

The only concern I have with your original design was the weight of the gate, the strength of the gate post and the latch , where to install it.

As for your question about cheap hinges that lock on the hinge side and not the latch side..
If there are such a hinge with a lockable device attached to them, they would be anything but cheap. I have never seen such a thing on the market, but if there is such a device it would be costly. More than likely way out there kind of costly. And for the most part probably not practical for your use.

A second option to digging through the concrete slab for installation of a latch post would be to buy a drop bar.
In this you would build your gate... install your gate post, and swing your gate off your secured gate post or strap hinges.
On the latch side, you can install a drop bar to the end of the gate panel.
Drill one hole in the concrete slab about 2 inches down where the drop bar meets the cement in the gates closed position.
This works, but it is a very simple application. But it would work fine for cats being contained in the yard.

I hope my ideas have helped give you some ideas of your own...

Good luck with your fence project
 

Last edited by Shadeladie; 09-03-14 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 08-07-13, 02:12 PM
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Why only 30" deep? What if there is a frost line to consider?
 
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Old 08-07-13, 06:08 PM
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Pulpo,

You are correct. There is always other considerations that would swing my advice to go one way or another, add to or remove inches...

When I first joined the forums I requested that members tell their story as is as well as give some information about where they live and their specific climates... This way when we as the more informed can give the best advice based on what we know.
Where I live 30 inches is deep enough for most installations of a post. In some cases installers dig only 20 inches, some others 24.... and so on. But a good guess to being aproximate was 30 inches based on a Central NJ like weather pattern.

Thank you for pointing the frost line question... Next time I will be more careful and try to add in for conditions as such.

Greg ~
 
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Old 08-08-13, 07:10 AM
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I confess, I used to cheat on a few inches too.
 
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Old 08-08-13, 08:19 AM
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Jack....I don't know about your cats but mine can go straight up and over even an 8' wall. Block, stucco, wood...doesn't matter. Even front de-clawed cats can go 5-6' that I've seen.
 
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