Need Gun for Home Defense

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Old 09-13-07, 06:14 PM
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Need Gun for Home Defense

I live in DC and want to get a shotgun for home defense because I travel a lot and want my wife to be able to defend herself and our two yr old.

While I'm comfortable with weapons I have no idea of the things to consider when making this purchase. I want a trigger lock - I presume because won't that defeat the defense purpose? I was thinking of a Remington 870. Can someone please give me some advice on whether I'm on the right path. One last thing, because I'm in DC the barrel needs to be at least 17" to comply with the current DC law until the USSC overturns it in the next semester!

Many thanks
 
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Old 09-16-07, 10:45 PM
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You may be comfortable with guns, but is your wife? Gun locks are essential with children around, but the time it takes to locate the key and prepare the weapon may be too long.

Think about alternatives such as better locks and alarm systems.

If you still want a gun, check out the Mossberg 500 persuader. 6 shot and 18.5" barrel.
 
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Old 09-16-07, 10:56 PM
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You might want to check the laws a little deeper - my understanding is that self defense shooting is not legal in D.C.. Should I be right, a gun is not your best choice.
 
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Old 09-17-07, 08:34 PM
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Hi,

If the weapon is for use by your wife I would suggest a Pomeranian. These dogs are very good watchdogs and are great if you have limited space. To be frank no matter what weapon you gave your wife to defend herself she will probably freeze come trigger time. Im not being sexist,,but alot of peeps including some macho men are the same way. A home intruder does not want barking to give him away,cause whatever advantage he had is gone. If she goes out at night it would also be good to take the dog along so the walk into the house is protected.

just gascan's 2 cents
 
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Old 09-17-07, 10:21 PM
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Why a shotgun and not a handgun? For home self-defense purposes a shotgun is not the most practical choice.
 
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Old 09-17-07, 11:04 PM
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While all of the above are good points, some other things to consider or elaborate on above.

I would go with the Mossberg 500 also. Nice weapon for that purpose.

Make sure she's with you on this. How does she feel about guns? How does she feel about hurting or killing an intruder? It's impossible to say how anyone will react when the time comes, but you need to at least think you can if this is the direction you are going to take. She has to believe it's ok, that this person will hurt her or her family, and deserve whatever they get. Personally, my mindset is they will not get out alive. (I hate the thought of a lawsuit, even worse than the thought of revenge when they get out of prison years later). Then, lots of practice and range time.

Do not let them talk to you and move closer. Never let them near enough to lunge at you or the weapon. I don't intend to even let them wait for the police and breath at the same time. Not taking any chances.

As far as a handgun, studies and tests have shown that even expert tacticle marksman have a very hard time under pressure. The odds go way down when someone is shooting back, so those of us who aren't among the best can expect even worse performance. A shotgun eases the aiming requirement. Also, if there are 2 intruders, they might be close together, especially in a hallway.

A dog is a great deterrant, and some defense. You have to want a dog. It won't do you any good in the yard or in a cage, or closed up in the laundry room. But a dog can be a big unknown to an untruder or burgler. It can also be defeated with a steak, particularly a drugged steak, among other ways.

As far as the self defense law, I'd rather take my chances with the DA and jury, than the intruder. But hey, that's just me.

Better locks and better doors, as well as an alarm system will help. Make sure you use the alarm. Make sure it's adequate, with real security. Too many times you're buying peace of mind, but inadequate security. Doors and locks generally won't keep someone determined out. Also, a solid bedroom door with a good frame and good lock will slow them down while help is on the way.

For what it's worth, I'm not a gun nut, only own a couple, and I don't hunt. I have an alarm system and 2 house dogs, medium & large, and 2 attack cats. Oh, and I do believe in the death penalty, and have no affinity to administering myself if necessary. Some people just need killing.

That's my $.02
 
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Old 10-03-07, 10:59 AM
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A Glock 19 is a great "house gun" that is very easy to operate and with the right ammo will stop any intruder. Glocks are natural pointers that sit lower to the axis of one's hand/wrist . 16 bullets with a flash light attached is great in the hands of someone with basic to medium comprehension of tactical shooting.

If you don't want to go the handgun route, I would then suggest either a 20 gauge shorty or a 40/45 carbine.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 10:54 AM
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Interestingly enough, a friend of mine's sister just bought a house slightly rural, and were remodeling it. She was there the other day in the morning and heard something, expecting the floor guys. She came out and 2 guys were coming down from upstairs, saw her and took off. The police new who they were.

Anyway, they wend and boght a shotgun, and she got a pistol. Rovolver, no hammer, and a laser sight built in. THAT is a good idea, and what I would recommend for any handgun to be used by a novice for home defense.

I still stand by my shotgun though. Another point to consider. With a high caliber handgun, or rifle, that bullet is going through walls if you don't hit something solid. With a shotgun, those pellets aren't going through as much.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 08:26 PM
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Over penetration - that's why I have safety slugs in the 9mm I have ready in the house.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ilmooz View Post
Why a shotgun and not a handgun? For home self-defense purposes a shotgun is not the most practical choice.
Because handguns have been illegal in DC since 1976 or so. Even those "grandfathered" must be stored disassembled. At least until SCOTUS throws out such nonsense.
 
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Old 07-12-08, 08:02 PM
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You are exactly right to want a shotgun for HOME defense. Anyone that suggests a handgun is better does not know what they are talking about. You want something that is easily aimed with enough killing power, but will not go through multiple walls and hit someone 2 rooms away. You want a shotgun with a loose choke loaded with buckshot.

Your wife must know that you should only wield a gun if you intend to use it. Forget that shoot them in the leg or only wound them crap that some people spew. If someone breaks into your home, you have to figure that they intend to hurt you. If you shoot the intruder, you don't want them to live to testify against you. Do you think that kind of person would tell a jury the truth?

A pump shotgun is a good choice for reliability, but your wife would have to be pretty efficient at working it. An inertia operated semi-auto like a Benelli would be a good choice. Gas operated semi autos are more prone to malfunctions. The 870 is a great choice, but take your wife to the firing range and teach her how to use it.
 
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Old 07-12-08, 10:34 PM
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The only good weapon for a woman is a .38 spl. snub nose
w/ at least a 12# trigger pull ( keeps the kid from blowing
someone away ) I must remind you that teaching your wife
how to use a weapon could have serious consequences
down the road. this is an easy weapon to teach a woman how to shoot. It must be kept loaded at all times--no trigger lock.
It must be readily accessable but out of reach of children &
others. She must be willing to shoot to kill--otherwise forget
the whole thing..........................
 
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Old 07-13-08, 05:11 AM
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I know it's an old post, but I'll have to concur with the Mossberg 500A, pistol grip. The main thing you have to remember with long guns, they have to go through a doorway sideways, or they are no good. Teach them to hit with a pistol and they are better off. If they don't practice enough, then the Mossberg won't miss. A little messy, but most of it will come out with a good cleaner.
And as observed by the previous posters, SCOTUS did do the right thing. Although I am siding with Ted Nugent, it is a sad state of affairs when 4 members of SCOTUS did not vote the majority. Something is wrong.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 09:12 AM
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I agree with the shotgun. Years ago I bought my wife a self defense shotgun. I was deployed a lot and she was nervous staying alone. I bought a 20 ga pump, cut the stock to fit and shortened the barrel.

I disagree with the blanket statement about a woman not being able to shoot someone. After 4-5 boxes of shells she was very comfortable and proficient with the gun.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 09:56 AM
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personally, I believe and longarm is not proper for home defense (at least inside the residence) due to it being cumbersome. Nothing worse than bumping the barrel an a door or cabinet and accidentally shooting the dog.

The problem with pistols is unless quite well trained, they are notoriously inaccurate, even at close range due to the incompetence of the shooter.

So, to combine the 2;

my brother has a pistol that will fire .410 shotgun shells. That gives the compactness of a pistol yet provides for the inaccuracies most experience with a pistol.

Now I will tell you though that one of the most feared sounds an intruder will hear is the racking of a shotgun from some darkened room but personally, this is not the place for a fair fight and warning the intruder. I suggest the stealth method. Surprise is one of the homeowners best tactics.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 12:10 PM
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Oooh, the sound of the slide racking, that'll get em every time, I agree, that is if they have any sense. If not, that's why you racked it, right? If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 01:04 PM
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.45 absolutely reliable Combat Commander and a spare magazine in the nightstand for me, Mossburg 500 20ga Cruiser model with #3 buck in the corner for her. Cell phone and flashlight on her nightstand.

Even though I'm in AZ, and can defend my "Castle", I'll stay in the bedroom, let whoever may be out there know that I'm armed and have called the police. In the heat of the moment, I could miss across the length of the hallway, but not when I'm already focused on the doorway. A shotgun at 12 feet probably has a 6-8" pattern, if yer lucky.

People who break into obviously occupied homes, are normally either crazy or drugged to the gills. The sound of a shotgun slide is probably going to do nothing to deter them.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 07:49 PM
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Well if we are all jumping into an old thread...

Only a fool brings a pistol to a gunfight.
 
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Old 07-13-08, 09:09 PM
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There is a lot of fools out there--FBI stats--more people
in this country are killed by .22 pistols than any other cal.
surprised ?????????????
ps: be careful what kind of cannon you use for home defense--when a sharp lawyer
gets you in civil court--he will turn your cannon into an A bomb-be forewarned..........
 
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Old 07-14-08, 08:16 AM
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A lot of informative posts from experienced gunowners in this thread and we all forgot one of the most important items when it comes to self defense.

A rusty old beat up .22 revolver with the serial number removed is the best way to prove that the intruder was armed.
 
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Old 07-14-08, 08:33 AM
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If yer saying what I think, thats the quickest way to find yerself in the big house that I know of, IMO. Sorta like the drag 'em in the front door if they fell in the yard thing.
The science of forensic investigation has come a long way.

I have no idea if the person breaking in my house is armed, and I don't have to. It's my home and property, and I have the right to defend it (at least in my area).

The best defense is the same weapons and ammunition that your local PD or Highway Patrol uses, a good criminal defense atty and a closed mouth until you speak to him.
 
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Old 07-14-08, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by j HOWARD View Post
There is a lot of fools out there--FBI stats--more people
in this country are killed by .22 pistols than any other cal.
surprised ?????????????
ps: be careful what kind of cannon you use for home defense--when a sharp lawyer
gets you in civil court--he will turn your cannon into an A bomb-be forewarned..........
Nope. We have castle doctrine laws in Michigan now. We had a guy shoot a kid he could n't even see because the kid was outside the house and the window blinds were moving so the guy in the house shot and killed him.
no charges.


this is a summary of the law:

People now will be allowed to use deadly force, with no duty to retreat, if they reasonably think they face imminent death, great bodily harm or sexual assault. They can use deadly force on their property or anywhere they have a legal right to be. The legislation also protects people from civil lawsuits if they have used force in self-defense.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 07:44 AM
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Better take careful note of fine print in new law--prosecutor
is allowed to investigate individual cases if he deems it necessary-if a person lives in Wayne county--watch out !!!!!
ps: shooting someone you can't see--a 2 yearold could win a civil lawsuit on that one...
 

Last edited by j HOWARD; 07-15-08 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 07-15-08, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by j HOWARD View Post
Better take careful note of fine print in new law--prosecutor
is allowed to investigate individual cases if he deems it necessary-if a person lives in Wayne county--watch out !!!!!
ps: shooting someone you can't see--a 2 yearold could win a civil lawsuit on that one...
well, the proof is in the pudding.

780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions.
Sec. 2.

(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.



History: 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006
the prosecutor has the right to investigate any suspected criminal action and I would expect them to as well. While there are a few exceptions to the law, they are very few. They guy that shot the kid oustide the house; the prosecutor did investigate and deemed it within the law and refuse to file any charges.

As long as the action is within the law, the shooter is granted civil immunity so no lawsuit can be sustained against the shooter.

Please post the fine print that you were speaking of. The plain language the statute is written in doesn't leave much to be investigated.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 01:46 PM
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It really bothers me (w/o knowing details) that someone is shot outside a secured house and anyone could honestly believe that they were in imminent danger of severe bodily harm or sexual assault.

Sounds like the shot "kid" was probably a POS that the area was glad to be rid of.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 04:06 PM
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looks good on paper--let's hope we are never involved in a
shooting--then we will never have to find out if there are
exceptions to the rule.......
ps: stay out of Wayne county & you should have no problems..................
 
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Old 07-15-08, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by j HOWARD View Post
looks good on paper--let's hope we are never involved in a
shooting--then we will never have to find out if there are
exceptions to the rule.......
ps: stay out of Wayne county & you should have no problems..................
Wayne County; Detroit is in Wayne County isn't it? I don;t know how long it's been since Detroit was considered the murder capital of the US but I think they have much greater problems than what the castle doctrine laws would cause.

Gunguy: It really bothers me (w/o knowing details) that someone is shot outside a secured house and anyone could honestly believe that they were in imminent danger of severe bodily harm or sexual assault.

Sounds like the shot "kid" was probably a POS that the area was glad to be rid of.
No charges in teen's shooting death in Benton Harbor

While the man who fatally shot a Benton Harbor teen during an attempted break-in will face no charges in the death, authorities say they will pursue a misdemeanor weapons charge against him.

On the morning of March 26, Jammie Parker, 31, was at his girlfriend's home in the 200 block of Hastings Avenue when Corey Napier Jr., 18, and three others reportedly attempted to enter the home, the Berrien County Prosecutor's Office said.

After a review of the police investigation and physical evidence at the scene, Berrien County Prosecutor Arthur Cotter said in a written statement that "it is abundantly clear" that Napier was shot "while he was in the process of breaking into the residence."

Cotter noted in the release that Michigan law was amended last year to allow self-defense when an individual in such circumstances has "an honest and reasonable belief that there was an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm."

Parker reportedly told authorities that he went into a bedroom and saw the drawn shade of an open window moving as someone attempted to climb in, the release said. Parker said he shot three times at the window with a .40 caliber pistol and then ran outside and fired into the air to scare the remaining teens away.

In police interviews, two of the three youths involved in the attempt admitted they had gone to the home to steal money and marijuana they believed was inside, the release said.

Cotter said he found insufficient evidence that Parker shot at a fleeing youth, and noted that an uninvolved witness saw Parker fire the weapon into the air.

Because the gun was not registered, Parker will be charged with failing to register a firearm, a 90-day misdemeanor.

Two of the youths with Napier face charges stemming from the break-in attempt. Maurice Ray, 17, faces charges of conspiracy to commit a home invasion second degree, a 15-year felony, and attempted home invasion second degree. Another youth is being petitioned in juvenile court on similar charges, and Cotter's office has asked that he be waived to adult court for trial. The investigation into possible charges against the fourth youth is still under way.

A 16-year-old who lives at the home where the shooting occurred is being charged with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver after police reportedly found about 90 grams of the drug in his bedroom, the release said. He is a classmate of the youths who broke into his home. Cotter's office is petitioning to have his case moved to adult court, as well.
 
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Old 07-15-08, 04:42 PM
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Ok, thanks for that Nap.

Still gotta say, taking someones life, the ultimate decision to make, for what seems to me a situation that probably could have been solved with a verbal warning and maybe a shot near the intrusion, is not a good thing.

Lucky the law reads as it does. Most places the guy would be in the Hurt Locker in civil court.

Sounds like the son was as much of a POS as the kid who was shot. Prob no loss to the world, but who knows??
 
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Old 07-15-08, 04:58 PM
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I'm glad I am past the age where they can force me onto
jury duty-- I was called 9 time to serve on Detriot
( correct spelling ) jury duty. Now, the only time I venture
into Detriot is to renew my CCW......................
 
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Old 07-15-08, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by j HOWARD View Post
I'm glad I am past the age where they can force me onto
jury duty-- I was called 9 time to serve on Detriot
( correct spelling ) jury duty. Now, the only time I venture
into Detriot is to renew my CCW......................
I didn't know there was an upper age limit. I figured our senior citizens would be the most available group. Sure seems like it would beat sitting in the park feeding the pigeons and dodging pidgy poop.

Gunguy:

Benton Harbor has earned the nickname (in some circles) of Benton Harlem. The last time I drove through downtown, I can;t remember seeing any businesses, at all.

A couple years ago, there were some riots in BH and a bunch of idiots got the idea of lighting up some houses. A comment from somebody I know was, "you realize that it wasn;t the fires that were the problems but the fact the fire department put them out" While I agree to an extent, some of the homes were owned by totally innocent citizens who were harmed greatly (financially).

The suprising part is BH is right on Lake Michigan,. One would think this would result in a very upscale area but somehow, BH has escaped benefitting from their location. It used to be a very upscale area but many years of factory closings and such have taken their toll.

Oh, now I get it (the correct spelling statement). I figured you were just so old you were repeating yourself.

jury duty

(correct spelling) jury duty
 
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Old 07-15-08, 05:56 PM
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DETRIOT-correct spelling----------
9 times on a jury in Detriot--you would take the park bench...
 
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Old 07-16-08, 07:01 PM
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In case you are curious why I changed the spelling:
1967 ( just b/4 they burned down 10% of the city)
Driving to work in downtown Detroit. I-94 x-way--I was wondering why holes were appearing in my car--then I saw the good folks in their houses ( too lazy to go to the rifle range) taking shots at the cars on the X-way.
After that I thought DETRIOT would be an appropiate spelling.
 
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Old 07-16-08, 07:22 PM
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Holy bat crap howard. I would be playin' Jed Clampett about then and movin' on out of there.
 
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Old 07-16-08, 07:46 PM
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I had been shot at b/4--no big deal.
I did not live in Detriot at that time...............
Worst part--they closed all liquor & beer sales for 3 days in tri-county area--so
people sold it from trucks on x-way just outside Detriot--cops first in line.....
 

Last edited by j HOWARD; 07-16-08 at 08:22 PM.
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