MR 9mm Baby Desert Eagle

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Old 11-21-14, 07:02 AM
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MR 9mm Baby Desert Eagle

Again, looking to make my first gun purchase.

I shot this gun yesterday -I think its the one. Felt good, fit my hand and was way more accurate than others once I settled in. I spent the day searching for the CZ 75 SP-01 but nobody had one. Finally someone told me that this is the exact same gun. Now I know why the CZ got such high ratings in online reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHVz6SRD7lA Here is a link to some test firing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1LMt1r8dwQ
 
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Old 11-21-14, 07:18 AM
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I had a buddy with the full size .357 Desert Eagle and he said it was pretty sensitive to the ammunition used - only what seemed to be the most expensive ammo would keep it from jamming.

If you've shot a few different loads successfully then I would think that's not an issue with this model and caliber.
 
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Old 11-21-14, 09:32 AM
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I agree it's a nice grip...very similar to a Browning Hi Power (w/o the finger grooves and such). I just never got used to the high odd safety (in my mind...high and odd). Also has a good weight in the front, unlike some that are so light now.

Jeff Cooper used to speak highly of the CZ, of course there were less choices in his day.

I can't shoot a Glock (or almost any other plastic pistol) worth crap, though some love them. Probably says more about me than the weapon. I guess I'm just stuck being a 1911 .45 guy.

If it works for you is what's important! Go for it and practice!
 
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Old 11-25-14, 04:42 AM
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The baby Eagle comes in both 9mm and .40, all steel and a composite/steel configuration. It also has the option of a shorter barrel or standard.

I'm leaning toward composite (lighter) with standard barrel. However, jury is still out on caliber. Have only shot the 9mm as the only Eagle available to rent at the range. My current client (bathroom remodel) says that 9mm is a toy and I really should look to something bigger. He says look at a .45 but if stuck on the Eagle, then definitely go with the .40. He is also a big Glock guy. His rational is shear knock down power. I was impressed at how accurate I could shoot the 9mm Eagle. Wouldn't the type of ammo also influence knock down ability?
 
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Old 11-25-14, 07:56 AM
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What are you going to use this gun for--concealed carry...home defense...target/range play...? Knock down power and accuracy aren't usually needed in the same gun and you can save some money if you choose for a particular purpose. If you are looking for a "do everything well" handgun that conceals well, is accurate at longer ranges, has a tough finish that won't corrode if worn next to your skin, is lightweight for all-day carry, has good sights that work well in low or bright light and won't snag clothing...I could go on...then you must pay a premium to have it all.

I just added my first .45 to my small collection--a Sig Sauer 1911 Carry Nightmare. It's a single-stack all-steel with black Cerakote finish and tritium sights. Feels like a natural extension of my arm and the round butt is very comfortable to shoot. Heavy weight tames the recoil and makes for quicker follow-up shots. First time I shot it I put all 8 rounds through a soda can off-hand at 20 yds. I like it. I don't intend to wear it so I'm glad I got a heavier gun.

BTW I certainly don't consider 9mm a "toy" caliber for defense, but a cop that has to stop a charging meth-head with bad intentions might.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 09:34 AM
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Very nice Guy...but you must have more free cash than me!

I'm a firm believer that until you get up to .44 mag level, "stopping power" is an overused term. A 30.06 has stopping power, a .458 Winchester has stopping power....handguns just don't. Effectiveness is what matters...and it's mostly the bullet that provides that now, in reasonable size weapons. Back in the day with FMJ only bullets, sure...the bigger the caliber the better it worked. Not so anymore. I think much of this was perpetrated by WWII and Korean vets, who were restricted on bullets used, of course.

Look at the .30 Carbine...considered wimpy by many...but has more power than a standard .357 magnum, which is used for hunting in many areas and one of the most effective "stoppers".

A 9mm that you can shoot well with premium loads will get the job done just as well as a .45. The bullets have improved SOOOOOO much since the 80's, when a 9mm was considered wimpy.

The .40 will also have a much harsher recoil, esp in a lightweight gun. Plus ammo is more expensive.

I'd stay with the 9mm and just brush off those who don't understand. I feel well armed with a good load and extra mag for my .380 Colt Government LW. I'm just not carrying the .45 Combat Commander all the time...and that's a fact....Jack. Lol

(Bill Murray in STRIPES reference, for those that didn't get it. I imagine most reading this did though.)
 
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Old 11-25-14, 05:12 PM
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Excellent - Now the proverbial follow up question. Recommendations on Ammo. Like I said, love the feel to the baby eagle in 9mm. At the range, I am only allowed to fire certain kinds of ammunition. However, I know that there are differences that go beyond price. Can any of you give a quick breakdown on the differences between say hollow point, FMJ, etc as well as an optimal number of grains of powder for the mix.

Thanks again to all who have helped educate me. I also feel much more confident in my discussions with various shops on hardware.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 06:36 PM
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IDK... I stay would stay away from 9mm anything. Go 357 revolver all day. Any barrel more then 4" is a waste..

Just my opinion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmNYvKDbyC0
 
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Old 11-25-14, 08:22 PM
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Never ever roll your own or use remanufactured ammo for serious situations. (If thats what you were suggesting.)

Any number of major manufacturers make quality premium ammo. Hornady, Black Hills, Winchester, etc. Be prepared to search and expect sticker shock. At least 100 rds fired, better 200 to verify function. Thats at $20+ for a box of 20 or 25.

What ever grain you shot at the range that worked well for you...stick with it. They should be able to give you the velocity and weight info...I would hope at least!!

And there really is nothing wrong with white box ammo. Thats slang for the cheap stuff from major makers.

Every weapon and ever shooter is different. Buying the gun is only the first step.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 09:57 PM
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I had a .357 Smith 586, one of my first buys...loved the feel, loved the look, could never shoot it worth crap, even with hot .38's....except single action...which is pretty useless. Same with a Taurus PT-92.

All depends on what works for the individual.
 
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Old 11-25-14, 11:45 PM
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As you can see....there is still factions of velocity vs caliber out here. Mike likes an 8 shot .357 at prob 1250 fps with a 125 grain bullet (?) and I like an 8 shot .45 at 900fps with 200-230gr bullets. Equally effective in my opinion...I just happen to shoot a Colt style auto better than anything else I've tried.

Just thought to remember to think to say this....lol.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gunguy45
Never ever roll your own or use remanufactured ammo for serious situations.
I've seen this recommendation before but I'm not aware of the reasoning. Is it reliability? Liability?
For personal defense I'll choose effectiveness and let the lawyers be damned! Whether that's "zombie" fast-expanding soft tips or hot hand-loads, makes no difference to me. I'd rather tell my story in court than leave it to my next of kin ;-)
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by czizzi
Can any of you give a quick breakdown on the differences between say hollow point, FMJ, etc as well as an optimal number of grains of powder for the mix.
Grains on the box refer to the weight of the bullet. Grains of powder is never listed and is only of concern to the re-loader, who arrives at a favorite combination by extensive experimentation and time at the target range.

Re bullet types:

Hard ball, round ball, full metal jacket (FMJ): Designed not to expand on penetration. Minimally effective stopping power. Bullets can pass right through and keep going to harm an innocent bystander in the next room or next door. Inexpensive and good for target use.

Soft point: Copper jacket stops near the tip, exposing soft lead. On impact the soft tip mushrooms easily--larger wound and limits penetration.

Hollow point: Depression in center causes core to expand and jacket to peel back--making a large wound channel and limiting penetration.

Ballistic tip: Hard plastic tip sits in hollow soft core. On impact with soft target the tip is driven into the core to initiate the expansion.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:31 AM
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Sure, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six but there are still things you can do to sway the 12 and carrying something with a name like Nightmare or Pit Bull or Scorpion is not going to help whereas something with just a model number or a name like Commander or Government is going to be innocuous. Additionally, using any ammunition with a bad reputation doesn't help, like if you happen to have some Black Talons lying around and decide to use them in a defense weapon. To that end, I have a couple different loads in my home gun but the first few are Glaser Safety Slugs with some hollow points afterward if the Glasers fail to get the job done for some reason.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 08:57 AM
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Liability all the way (well...mostly). If anyone really thinks they can make more effective/reliable/accurate pistol ammunition than companies with ballistic engineers, multi-million dollar research labs, and strict Q/A, they are delusional, IMO.

Unlikely you can get any better bullets than those that are already in factory ammo. And us common folk don't even have access to some of the powders used by manufacturers. You just have to check out a few different brands.

The days of using a hacksaw to cut grooves in a lead wadcutter are long gone.

Read some history of lawsuits about home made "mankiller" ammo used in an otherwise completely justifiable situation and see the results. Might take a bit of searching. No documented cases, but much discussion.

This is for defensive handgun ammunition of course. Rifles for hunting are a completely different matter. You'll probably be able to find a factory load that works very well in your rifle...but if you are a meticulous experimenter you may find something slightly better working up your own loads. Even then...does it really make that much difference? Does 3/4" vs 1" groups make a difference on an elk at 200 yds?

For practice with a handgun...oh reloads and home brewed all the way...just make sure it still shoots to the same point of aim as the premium stuff. I practice (well, I used to, more often) with 230 gr FMJ ammo that I either made or bought in bulk. I carry 230 gr JHP at the same velocity if I'm carrying the Commander. If they are an inch diff in point of impact at 30 ft or so....so what? I wouldn't ever be in that situation. Same with my .380, white box for practice, premium loads for carry.
 

Last edited by Gunguy45; 11-26-14 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Corrected a statement
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Old 11-26-14, 10:29 AM
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Gunguy I respect your stance on the issue of legal liability of using handloads for defense...and I would add the recent "zombie" marketing blitz as something that a lawyer could capitalize on to sway a jury in a civil suit. But I take issue with your first paragraph. IMO all that corporate investment in machinery and QC gets is consistently average performance. If a reloader wanted to he could cut grains of propellant and weigh loads to an accuracy any manufacturer would find insane. Every good gun test includes range time with a variety of factory ammo and ultimately any gun is found to "prefer" one product over all the rest -- but that doesn't mean the losers are lower quality. A reloader just seeks to find that "best" for his gun and hopefully can do it cheaper than factory.

I haven't reloaded in years and only have dies for the more expensive calibers. No 9mm, no .223. But .44mag, .45LC, .308, 30/06 I can build far cheaper than factory. (I had a plinking load worked up for .44 that only cost 5 cents per round)
The recent difficulties in finding even 9mm has me re-thinking my decision not to bother...
 
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Old 11-26-14, 12:30 PM
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Well, I guess we can agree to disagree...

Remington, Federal, and Winchester...sure, big corporations. But they have massive LE and military commitments. So performance and consistency go together.

Black Hills, Buffalo Bore, and some others....smaller companies that provide superior products because they care.

As to cost....you must be luckier than me. If I add up the cost of powder and bullets (brass and primers I have tons of), white box stuff is so close it's hardly worth the time.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 02:58 PM
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Oh...another thing I saw in online discussions...since you mentioned a plinking load.

They talked about a downloaded .44 Mag to prevent over penetration and such....well...isn't that a .44 Spl?

Apologies if this thread appears to have been hijacked. We just get so few posts in this area, and I get too involved. I don't mean to turn it in to one of the argument forums so prevalent out there.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 04:10 PM
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Well then I will go back a number of posts, at least a little closer to the original topic, and add that I too often carry a .45 auto, but sometimes don't want the weight, and still feel plenty safe with a .380. Czizzi, I may have mentioned this in one of your earlier posts, but a gun, whether a pistol, rifle, or shotgun, is a lot like a circular saw, drill, or whatever, in that you want something that is comfortable to you. And what is comfortable to you may not be comfortable to me, so, by all means, keep sharing and getting ideas, but pick what you like. And guns get a bit more complicated because you can generally get the same style in various calibers, so caliber size is part of the comfort. Within reason, of course. If someone charges into my shop some night, and the closest thing is the .22 that I keep there for woodchucks, etc., yup, I'm grabbing it, even though I wouldn't stick it on my belt to go into an area where I thought that I might need protection. And shooting is a lot like bowling, golf, or whatever. The more you practice, the more comfortable you get, the more fun you have, and the better you become at the sport.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 04:33 PM
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Apologies if this thread appears to have been hijacked
Vic - Its all good, and you guys are giving me great information.

Mitch17, Guy48065 and aka Pedro - Thank you for your comments and insight. What a wonderful new pastime I have stumbled upon. I took the Mrs. CZizzi out for a surprise first private lesson with the lead instructor at the local school and had her shooting a Glock 26, which she felt very comfortable with. I was test firing a Sig P232 to try something in another caliber to 9mm (it was a .38). I did not much care for the gun itself but after 35 rounds started getting better groupings. I must say, as far as the Mrs.'s is concerned - I pity anyone who gets within 10 yards of her. Fabulous performance for a 100% total rookie. She loved the experience and looks forward to future outings. My hats off to her instructor, Juan, who really took the time with her to make it a great experience.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 05:42 PM
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Pick whatever gun feels good in your hand and you can shoot well. With modern ammo the .380 can be a legitimate cartridge and I think the 9mm is solidly in the "effective" group. Once you are up in that category I think where your bullet lands is more important than the caliber.

I frequently go on hunting trips with groups of friends so I get to see many different calibers in action. A accurate shot wins every time. Everything from a .30-30, 7mm up to 300 Win Mag and 35 Whelen leave similar holes going in and out even though some carry almost twice the energy as others. A bad shot with a monster cartridge is much less effective than a good shot from anything else. Shoot whatever you can shoot well.

Also realize that all of your shooting will be at paper targets or old soda cans. Caliber does not really matter when poking holes in paper. You will hopefully never have to consider your gun's stopping power and even less likely is that you will ever need it in that capacity. So, pick something appropriate for how you will use it 99.9999999999% of the time especially if it is in the "effective" category. No need to get a hand cannon that you hate to shoot and can't shoot well for the extremely remote chance you will have to stop someone. That comfortable 9mm that fits your hand and points where you think is a better choice than a .40, .44mag or .45 that doesn't work for you.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 06:21 PM
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Pilot - Awesome words of advise. Thank you.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 06:37 PM
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Hey....I said pretty much the same thing in post #3...just not as eloquently...lol.

Glad your wife did well and enjoyed. Must be a good instructor. Many are not, when teaching women. My wife is a good shot, from her Navy days, but she did not and will never "enjoy it".

Oh...and just because it's my nature...the P232 is a .380 (not a .38) and very similar to a Walther PP (if not a copy). Just think how "James Bondy" you would feel with one? (Though he originally carried a .32 ACP/7.65mm). Very nice gun, but pricey.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 09:09 PM
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You will hopefully never have to consider your gun's stopping power and even less likely is that you will ever need it in that capacity. So, pick something appropriate for how you will use it 99.9999999999% of the time especially if it is in the "effective" category. No need to get a hand cannon that you hate to shoot and can't shoot well for the extremely remote chance you will have to stop someone. That comfortable 9mm that fits your hand and points where you think is a better choice than a .40, .44mag or .45 that doesn't work for you.

Browning Buck Mark 22 then per your statement. 2 inch spread per 50 yard target... Put a mussle on it it gets better... from what I know..

A accurate shot wins every time.
So its accurate OK... Now what does the above statement tell us?

But I guess its the gun owner and what they believe or were taught to believe...
 
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Old 11-26-14, 09:21 PM
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Im sure I can shoot an intruder in the head several times with this.....( If thats you intention)






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk49USbIVco
 
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Old 11-26-14, 09:40 PM
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They'd have to be standing pretty still wouldn't they Mike? Lol

Center mass at close range....that's my motto.

And personally, I'm a Ruger guy. Brownings are just too pricy.
 
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Old 11-26-14, 10:19 PM
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They'd have to be standing pretty still wouldn't they Mike? Lol

Center mass at close range....that's my motto.
Ha ha gunny.... who stands still when they are being shot at....

Close range??? My home is 1200 sq ft.. Enter from any door or window and other then a shot gun I rather have the 22 for accuaracy rather then giant recoil eagle....

I guess guns are an extension of what men think they need... Im the opposite...

Function and form....

Like buying a Ferrari without ever owning a car I guess...
 
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Old 11-26-14, 10:38 PM
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Old 11-26-14, 11:40 PM
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for accuaracy rather then giant recoil eagle
I agree...that's why I have a 20 ga Mossberg for primary (much less recoil than a 12 ga and just as effective at the needed ranges) if I'm awake and aware. But my Commander is a one hander if needed and for whatever reason, I shoot it better than anything else I own? It's not a LW, so plenty of heft with the loads I use.

It's funny when you look up the studies, .22 and I think .25 are right up there. Guess it depends on the situation. A .22 in the eye is probably as good as a .38 to the chest?

Ahhh this is just a Ford vs Chevy Vs Dodge thing huh?

Ohhh and please...don't say Gunny...might pi$$ off the former Marines out there...lolol. J/k.
 
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Old 11-27-14, 03:55 AM
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Oh...and just because it's my nature...the P232 is a .380 (not a .38)
Not sure if it is as grating as the grammar police, but, if you could follow up with an explanation, it would ease the pain. In this thread, the following has been used - .22, .25, .30, .32, .357, .38, .40. .44mag, .45 - and the first time I use .38 I get an - oops, sorry its .380.

Difference between a .38 and .380 is.....? Somewhere I recall my follow up question being a better explanation of ammo (although this seems to be a caliber question). Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
 

Last edited by czizzi; 11-27-14 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 11-27-14, 04:14 AM
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The little I know is that the 380 is a short 9mm.Less powder and brass.can not interchange any of the above.Very confusing.
 
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Old 11-27-14, 04:20 AM
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That is you can't interchange a 38,380 or 9mm.
 
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Old 11-27-14, 04:21 AM
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Czizzi, now you are getting into the fun part. Or maybe more frustrating than fun?!? Typical math, you lose the zero, and .380 is the same as .38. But not in gun caliber lingo. A .380 is smaller, roughly half the length, of a 9 mm. And obviously the shorter case means less powder, bringing it down to a debatable round as far as lethality, at least for some people. Not debatable in my book, because, as I mentioned, I carry one sometimes, but you will find just as many people who put it in the category of a .22. A .38 on the other hand is a rather potent round, more comparable to a .357, which of course most people know as a potent round. But to further complicate things, a .38 round will function in a .357, but a .357 round will not fit in a .38. And take a .30-06 riffle round. The "06" refers to the year 1906, not to a size. As I said, some fun things to learn, but sometimes frustrating too, because some of it is not so obvious.
 
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Old 11-27-14, 07:33 AM
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Just to make it interesting...the .380 ACP (designed by John Browning and typically just called the .380 in the States) is also known as .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, 9◊17mm and 9 mm Browning Court in other parts of the world. How bout them apples?

Wiki has very good articles on almost all calibers, but if you start following links, you can lose a day pretty quickly...lol.

.380 ACP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Old 11-27-14, 08:28 AM
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I have shot the baby eagle with the poly frame and really liked it, although I have not bought one. I have also seen the one with the steel frame at shows and liked the fit of that as well. I have a buddy that would give his left nut for a steel framed Baby eagle but they can be hard to find at shows.

I would recommend 9mm IMO
 
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Old 11-27-14, 08:37 AM
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Enjoying this thread very much as yesterday I bought my first semi-auto handgun, a Ruger LC9s. Havenít fired it yet and wonít until the weekend.

As a side note, last night, while gun was still in the box, our cat pushed box and all off of the counter. Guess she isn't a Ruger fan...
 
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Old 11-27-14, 08:44 AM
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She was just marking it Bugman...she likes it so much. Mine, mine, mine!
 
 

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