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Kitchen Floor Joists Resting on Ground


CKELLY's Avatar
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01-24-05, 10:34 AM   #1  
CKELLY
Kitchen Floor Joists Resting on Ground

Howdy everyone,
I'm gearing up to gut the kitchen of a 1880 brick house in the Mid-Hudson region of New York state. One half of the ground floor was built over a crawl space, the other half (the kitchen) was built directly on the ground. The current kitchen floor is a big pile of dry rot--joists, subfloor, T&G boards, everything.
I have made preparations to use pressure-treated lumber and subfloor material, on top of a plastic vapor barrier. I was wondering if a second vapor barrier--beneath the plywood subfloor, above the insulation--would be helpful, overkill, or unwise for any reason.

 
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01-24-05, 02:37 PM   #2  
Hello and welcome to the forums.

Set the floor framing directly on the ground huh, aren't you glad they don't build 'em like they used to.

Sounds like you've got an ok plan, my thought is though that using the two layers of moisture barrier, one on the ground and another on top of the joists would actually trap moisture in the space and in rather short order lead to mold forming and the insulation getting saturated, rendering it basically useless. It might be a good idea to run this by the experts in the insulation forum before proceeding.

 
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01-27-05, 01:26 PM   #3  
CKELLY
Thanks for the welcome Dell.

Well, the updated plan is to dig out the "crawlspace" a little, and fasten a ledger right to the bricks, then joist hangers on the ledger.

Do you think two 6 inch Tapcons, set 16 inches apart will be sufficient for the ledger? Or maybe there is a better way to do this?

 
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01-27-05, 01:39 PM   #4  
If you attache the ledger with 2 tapcons each 16" you should be ok. In any event, be sure you use PT lumber for anything within 6" of the ground. Most codes require the joists to be at least 18" above the ground.

Personally, I would put down a membrane ( at least 6mil ) then 4" of sand and 4" of concrete slab. Then you can use whatever finish flooring you want on top of that. Just make sure the top of the slab is at the appropriate finish height to accommodate your finish flooring.

Remember that any good project is only as good as what it's supported on. The rotted framing that you encountered is proof of that fact.

 
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01-27-05, 02:21 PM   #5  
CKELLY
Thanks Joe,

Yes definitely treated wood and a membrane. I don't know how deep I can get the space--the bedrock is very shallow.

I wonder how long this floor would have lasted if the owners didn't install that washing machine (70s?) in the kitchen and drain it STRAIGHT INTO THE CRAWLSPACE. I'm totally serious. Maybe they thought that hanging a drain hose out the window would be tacky.

 
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01-31-05, 10:16 AM   #6  
I wonder how long this floor would have lasted if the owners didn't install that washing machine (70s?) in the kitchen and drain it STRAIGHT INTO THE CRAWLSPACE. I'm totally serious. Maybe they thought that hanging a drain hose out the window would be tacky.
duh what's a drain? ROFLMAO I like your thought process Kelly.

Joe's got a great suggestion with the slab if it's with the budget, the ledger idea will be easier and cheaper. Also could be code requirements with the plumbing, check locally. Keep us posted.

 
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01-31-05, 01:48 PM   #7  
CKELLY
Why thanks Dell. I like your... um, beard.

The crete floor is very tempting, unfortunately budget and time won't allow it right now. Luckily, on the other hand, this old house has no plumbing. Well, there are a few external pipes and a drain.
Did I mention that from this kitchen, you take a step UP into the basement? The hillside foundation is just another magical feature of this crusty old beauty. It really is a beauty--not just because it's my first home. For the most part, it has that "little old lady that only drove it on Sundays" feeling.

I'm starting this job on Feb 15, and I have 6 days to finish it (vapor barrier, joists, subfloor, boards, some wall & door framing, plaster). Wish me luck, and thanks for the help. ...more to come

 
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