Question on tricky framing

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  #1  
Old 12-18-05, 07:43 PM
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Question on tricky framing

Getting ready to start framing my basement and have a lot of water pipes and such running along the floor joist. I have been planning to frame out my top plate to alow for these while building the wall on the floor and then tilting it into place. While sitting down here tonight looking at the nightmare It occured to me that maybe I could cut a 2x4 into the lengths between the mess, nail/screw them onto the floor joist, build a normal wall subtracting the 2x4 already on the ceiling and then stand into place. That would also give me a nice cushion for standing the walls up too instead of using shims. Any reason to think this wouldn't be good?

Obviously some of these walls will run along the length of 1 joist instead of perpendicular of them. Do you think the wall would end up being wobbly? Would I be better off putting up a cross piece to connect 2 joists and then nail into that? I'll be putting in a drop ceiling so that should be hidden in the end.
 

Last edited by Klutch; 12-18-05 at 08:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-20-05, 06:32 AM
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Klutch,

All sounds good! You're thinking it all through the right way!
 
  #3  
Old 12-21-05, 08:17 PM
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Basement stud wall

Klutch - adding cross blocking to support walls running parallel to the joist is a correct way to secure the top plates. I would suggest rethinking the way you want to erect your walls. When you assemble a wall on the floor and tip it into place against an existing ceiling, the wall will be slightly too long and you'll probably have to persuade it to get it to fit. An easier method is to leave the top plate off the wall until it is vertical, plumb the wall, and then nail the top plate and wall to the joists. If you have a little variation in joist height (common) you can either trim or shim the plate as needed.
 
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Old 12-21-05, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell
Klutch - adding cross blocking to support walls running parallel to the joist is a correct way to secure the top plates. I would suggest rethinking the way you want to erect your walls. When you assemble a wall on the floor and tip it into place against an existing ceiling, the wall will be slightly too long and you'll probably have to persuade it to get it to fit. An easier method is to leave the top plate off the wall until it is vertical, plumb the wall, and then nail the top plate and wall to the joists. If you have a little variation in joist height (common) you can either trim or shim the plate as needed.
I might have not stated it very well. Basically I'm thinking of having 2 top plates essentially. One already nailed in place across the joists and then build a complete wall and put it in place so after it was up I'd have 2 horizontal 2x4's against the joists up top. This would offer me 2 things.

One is that with the wall being built on the floor it'd be 1.5" shorter than the joists so I can stand it up and slide it under the 2x4 that's already nailed above (I've heard a lot of people do this with the bottom plate so they can set the wall on top of a bottom plate already nailed in place)

Two would be that in the places I have plumbing pipes and such along the joists I can do what I did in number one but put sections of 2x4 along the joists in between the pipes and such that way when I build the wall I don't have to cut/measure dips in the top allowing for the pipes, the 2x4's already in place at the top would take care of it. Make sense?
 
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Old 12-21-05, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell
Klutch - adding cross blocking to support walls running parallel to the joist is a correct way to secure the top plates. I would suggest rethinking the way you want to erect your walls. When you assemble a wall on the floor and tip it into place against an existing ceiling, the wall will be slightly too long and you'll probably have to persuade it to get it to fit. An easier method is to leave the top plate off the wall until it is vertical, plumb the wall, and then nail the top plate and wall to the joists. If you have a little variation in joist height (common) you can either trim or shim the plate as needed.
Almost forgot. So you believe that instead of nailing directly into one joist running the same direction as the wall I should put cross pieces (every 16" or so) and nail to those? I had planned on going straight into a joist but after thinking about it for a while I'd hate to rely on ONE joist where the other wall that run perpendicular get a different joist every 16" for support.
 
  #6  
Old 12-22-05, 06:39 AM
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Klutch - Nailing to one parallel joist is OK. Blocking is used when the non bearing wall is located somewhere other than under a joist.

I'm probably not describing erecting the wall correctly. Using two top plates is typical wall construction. However, if you build a wall on the floor say 96" high, when you try to stand it up its effective length will be more than 96" as it's tilted (think of the geometry of a rectangle formed by the length and width of the framing members the hypoteneuse will be more than the length of the longeest side). If you nail your top plate to the joists and try to stand the new wall up you'll probably have a hard time getting it to fit. I usually use a persuader if I'm not too concerned about moving the joists any, otherwise I will stand the wall up with only one top plate and then slide the second top plate into place once the wall is vertical.
 
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Old 12-22-05, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell
Klutch - Nailing to one parallel joist is OK. Blocking is used when the non bearing wall is located somewhere other than under a joist.

I'm probably not describing erecting the wall correctly. Using two top plates is typical wall construction. However, if you build a wall on the floor say 96" high, when you try to stand it up its effective length will be more than 96" as it's tilted (think of the geometry of a rectangle formed by the length and width of the framing members the hypoteneuse will be more than the length of the longeest side). If you nail your top plate to the joists and try to stand the new wall up you'll probably have a hard time getting it to fit. I usually use a persuader if I'm not too concerned about moving the joists any, otherwise I will stand the wall up with only one top plate and then slide the second top plate into place once the wall is vertical.
I don't think we're too far off from each other then. I was going to nail one top plate up, build the wall, stand it up OUTSIDE the other top plate and once fully vertical slide it under the top plate that is already there. That kind of the point of me doing it so that when I initially stand the wall up I won't have any problem doing so.
 
  #8  
Old 12-22-05, 09:00 AM
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Hey Klutch,

Here's another method you could use if you want. It sounds like you are describing something similar in your 1st post. Instead of building the wall on the floor and then raising it, you could build it in place.

When I have done this, I snap all of my lines for the walls on the floor and cut my plates. Then, I layout the stud spacing on both the top and bottom plates. Next, I install all bottom plates. Then I block the joist bays above the bottom plates that run parallel to the joists using scrap 2x4s "on the flat".

Note: you don't need a double top plate for this method.

Next, I use a straight 2x4 and a 4' level and plumb up to the joists (or blocking) from the bottom plates. Then, I snap a line and install the top plates.

Now you measure the distance between each top and bottom plate and cut and install studs. I write the measurements on the top plate at the appropriate location for each stud, make a cut list, cut a bunch of studs(I write the measurement on them too) Then I install everything and repeat the process until I'm done, or if you have a helper, one guy cuts and the other installs.
 
  #9  
Old 12-22-05, 12:50 PM
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Thanks Kona and everybody that has replied.

Anyone know what the nail spacing is on the top and bottom plate is when I affix it to the ceiling and floor? I have a ramset for the concrete and figured on just using framing nails above. Do I just do one nail in between the joists?
 
  #10  
Old 12-22-05, 01:14 PM
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Klutch,

On floor, 1 every 2 ft, top plate can be same or between each stud.
 
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