Attaching studs to 4 year old concrete and....


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Old 02-27-06, 08:41 AM
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Attaching studs to 4 year old concrete and....

I am starting to tackle the last room project in my 4 year old split level house ....the basement!!! I have a walk-out lower level that gives me half concrete walls in the room I am doing. I have 2 questions that I did a quick search on and came up with nada.

A little info on how the room. This room will likely take some abuse with kids. I am planning on insulating the walls and using some sort of plastic vapor barrier between the cement and studs/insulation. I'm going to use some 1 x whatever for the shelf around the ledge. 2x4 stud wall is what I am using on the lower part and all electrical is in the upper wall.

1) What is the best way to secure the half wall to the cement? Im thinking of using angle brackets bluescrewed to the cement and then to the framed wall, maybe every other stud(one high and one low)

2) I would like to know if I should frame this wall the same height as the concrete? I see a thread asking about this earlier(quoted below)...but my windows are sitting on the 2x6 that is bolted to the concrete. What is the best way to connect these 2 walls?


tips, tricks or links would be greatly appreciated for this project. If anyone has any pics of bare framed walls, that would be




Originally Posted by IAhawk
I am starting to finish off my basement. My basement is partial exposure and thus has a 48" cement wall around half the basement. Above that the wall is already to be drywalled. I would like to have the picture shelf all the way around. Should I bring my framing even with the cement wall or have it come above it. One book I was reading recomended to frame it 2 1/2 " above the cement wall. If so what is the reason for this.
 
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Old 02-27-06, 06:00 PM
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Use this site's search engine and your answers will appear.

Paint the walls with DRYLOK, hold the framing 1" away from the concrete, donot use a vapor barrier, unles you have a drain for condensation.
 
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Old 02-28-06, 05:06 AM
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If you install a moisture barrier to the concrete, make sure it does not extend above the grade level. This will allow the wall to breath and allow mositure to escape to the outside.
 
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Old 02-28-06, 07:08 AM
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You can use a powder nailer to attach the sole plates to the concrete. I usally install plates on the half wall ledge also. This gives a nailing surface for your 3/4" shelf and the top plate of your half wall.
Single shot powder nailers are reasonably priced and a lot quicker than Tapcons.
 
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Old 02-28-06, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Snoonyb
Paint the walls with DRYLOK, hold the framing 1" away from the concrete, donot use a vapor barrier, unles you have a drain for condensation.
That sounds like a good idea. I am gonna use treated lumber for this project, does anyone recommend I staple plastic on the backside of the 2x4's? layer plastic/insulation/then drywall?


Originally Posted by em69
If you install a moisture barrier to the concrete, make sure it does not extend above the grade level. This will allow the wall to breath and allow mositure to escape to the outside.
Will I have a problem with the 'shelf ledge' as far as moisture coming up from the concrete? The last room I did, I brought the plastic up and stapled it to the 2x6 sitting on the cement and tucked it under the 2x4 that I nailed to the floor.


Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell
You can use a powder nailer to attach the sole plates to the concrete. I usally install plates on the half wall ledge also. This gives a nailing surface for your 3/4" shelf and the top plate of your half wall.
Single shot powder nailers are reasonably priced and a lot quicker than Tapcons.
I have tried using the 'hammer' type with marginal success. I think i was using 2 1/2" nails and yellow or green loads. Half of them wouldn't make it in all the way, half would break out and be useless, and half would actually stick. I tried using different loads with same results. Tapcons have never let me down...except for the 15 drill bits per wall and the cost.

any hints on this?



thanks guys for your quick replies....very much appreciated.
 
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Old 02-28-06, 08:29 AM
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Aklwayz - I've never had a problem with a powder nailer. Once in a while a nail won't drive, but I've framed two basements and added a couple of partition walls on slabs using yellow loads and 2 1/2" nails. It's my tool of choice for attaching wood to concrete.
 
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Old 02-28-06, 08:32 PM
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Here are the four methods I've used for attaching wood as well as steel to concrete.
1) The powder actuated ramset. The actual pistol type, both .22 and .27.
2) Concrete nails and a 4lb. hammer.
3) Drtve a 16P just through the treated to mark the concrete, move the plate, drill a 1/4" hole in the concrete, insert 3-8P nails in the hole, replace the 2x4 plate and drive the 16s too.
4) Drill a 3/16 hole through the plate into the concrete and insert a 2-1/2" tapcon.
 
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Old 03-01-06, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by alwayz
Will I have a problem with the 'shelf ledge' as far as moisture coming up from the concrete? The last room I did, I brought the plastic up and stapled it to the 2x6 sitting on the cement and tucked it under the 2x4 that I nailed to the floor.
Where is the outside grade level in relation to your sill plate (the 2x6 on top of the foundation)?

A moisture barrier is only placed on a wall where the soil is in contact with the concrete. In addition, it starts at grade level and extends down to the bottom plate on the floor...wrapped under as you describe. It should never be extended all the way up to the floor joists as this will trap moisture. The use of this barrier is to prevent moisture from the soil penetrate the concrete and contact the insulation. If this insulation gets wet, it stays wet.
 
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Old 03-01-06, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by em69
Where is the outside grade level in relation to your sill plate (the 2x6 on top of the foundation)?

A moisture barrier is only placed on a wall where the soil is in contact with the concrete. In addition, it starts at grade level and extends down to the bottom plate on the floor...wrapped under as you describe. It should never be extended all the way up to the floor joists as this will trap moisture. The use of this barrier is to prevent moisture from the soil penetrate the concrete and contact the insulation. If this insulation gets wet, it stays wet.
My basement walls that I am finishing are 4 foot walls for the 'walk-out' side of the house. The outside grade level is within a foot of the sillplate.

My main concern is this....
The top of the framed wall will be level with the top of the concrete wall...correct? My 'shelf board' will be nailed to the top of the framed wall, rest on top of the concrete and I will then toenail it into the 2x6 sill plate?
.....what prevents the shelf from absorbing the moisture and rotting? and what can I use for insulation under that board?

Sorry for being a pain in the a$$ guys, I just want to do this correctly. The window so close to the concrete is giving me problems.
 
 

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