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Help on closing in carport


mrblue's Avatar
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TX

08-22-06, 07:35 AM   #1  
Help on closing in carport

hello, thinking of framing carport soon.. First off i am not a framer or master at nothing... This is an add on carport that is attached to house...

. It has a 2x12 run around the top..
1. Should i take 2x12 down and run wall all the way to top or can i just run another side by side to current one ( can i use 2x6 instead of another 2x12 so my top plate has something to mount to..

2. what is best way to attach bottom plate to concrete?

3.. Is this something i would need a permit for.. as it is mine and i am doing the work..

any help on this or if you need more pictures or answers

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/dgaskamp/port2.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/dgaskamp/port1.jpg

 
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XSleeper's Avatar
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08-22-06, 03:51 PM   #2  
1). It's hard to tell exactly what I would do, based on the pictures, but you have a couple options. Depending on what kind of roof load you have, removing the 4x4's could be dangerous without building some temporary supports. One idea would be to apply 1/2" plywood to the inside of the 2x12, then add another 2x12 to make a header across the entire opening. You could then lay down a piece of PT sill, add a piece of top plate to the bottom of the header and then support the header with a few studs. Then cut out the middle 4x4, lay another piece of PT sill down, and another piece of top plate and continue framing with some studs. Basically you'd be building your wall underneath the current 2x12. You'd just have to make the 2x12 thicker- the same thickness as your wall will be. 2x4's should be fine.

Another idea would be to remove the 1/2 of the header that is closest to the house entirely (leaving two 4x4's to hold the remaining section of 2x12), frame in the section closest to the house, then remove the other 1/2 of the 2x12 while the corner of the roof and ceiling joists are supported by some temporary bracing.

2). If you are in a hurricane prone area, that is a question for a building department. I'd suggest that you use 3/8" drive in anchors, but that might not meet the code in your area.

3). Likely, yes, you will need a permit. Anytime you make major additions to a home, you usually need a permit from the city. If they have building inspectors, this allows them to ensure that any improvements you make will meet their codes so that someone buying the house later does not regret it. Many areas have no codes and no building departments, but they still require permits so that the city can collect fees, or so that the assessor's office is alerted to the improvements, or so that they can verify that you will not be in violation of some zoning ordinance, like building past your right of way, or building onto your neighbor's property by mistake.

Just looking at the pictures, it appears to me that the grade is pretty close to the surface of the cement, and that it could cause some issues unless the grade is lowered or the sheathing and sill plate are protected somehow.

Additionally, if the cement slab does not have a footing, that may be something that is required before building on top of it. Also something you'd want to check with your local authorities about.

 
Snoonyb's Avatar
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08-22-06, 11:13 PM   #3  
A couple of things to be considered.
With the open carport, the required light and ventilation provided by any windows and doors are not affected. However, when it is enclosed, those values need to be replaced and/or provided from another source.
If any bedroom window is an egress window, another exit must be provided.
Any door separating a parking structure from a dwelling must be rated, and self-closing.

All of that may be an argument for not permitting, however
when you sell, unless its as is, you'll face it then.

 
mrblue's Avatar
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08-23-06, 06:33 AM   #4  
thanks for info,,,, i will call and ask anonymous question about permit
1. XSleeper- I like the idea of leaving the 2x12s up and adding to them.. do i have to use another 2x12 or could i use another 2x? product along side to make up the thickness of wall ( dont know if said correct ) ..
but i guess bottom line is the 4x4's would have to come out.. correct?

heck- when i get home i will take better pictures of whole room

 
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08-23-06, 07:43 PM   #5  
As a contributor to this form, I have a moral obligation NOT to advocate an illegal activity, such as preforming permit required improvements, without a permit.

Non the less, you can be instructed in the correct method to achieve your end.

I would pay them a visit. There may be a handout foundation detail.

Pose your questions as contemplating.
Since a good portion of Texas is expansive soil, ask if your area is governed by this condition.

To determine if you have the required foundation, dig a couple of test holes adjacent to the slab.
If you can undermine the slab,(other than next to a post location), at about 4-6" deep, you do not have the proper foundation.
There are several methods to address this, the most labor intensive, least sound, is undermining.
The correct method is to support the roof with a temp. wall, i8" inside the existing edge of the slab. when this is done, you can remove the posts. Saw cut the slab 12" in from the slab edge, remove the cut section and post footings, excavate for the new footing and curb wall.
The new footing will require a min. of 2-1/2" rebar horizontally, doweled into the existing foundation 6" and set with epoxy.
You'll need to also dowel into the existing slab at 24"OC. with #3 rebar, bent in an "L" into the new foundation and tied to the horizontal bars.
Wood framing is require to be 6" above the highest point of natural grade, so you'll need to form the curb wall to correspond, with 5/8x10" "J" bolts within 12" of sill ends and every 5' of continuous run.

 
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08-24-06, 04:34 AM   #6  
Thanks, The permit guy is calling me back this morning so i can ask some questions ..
Are you saying i might not have the correct thickness of a slab to be able to Frame it in...as far as codes go.??

I just want to frame in 2 sides of my carport so i can be out of the cold during the winter for a work area, then turn it into maybe a living area next year....

 
Concretemasonry's Avatar
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08-24-06, 07:05 AM   #7  
Help on closing in carport

Judging from what I can see on the second photo, I would question putting anything on that slab. It looks like it cracked at the location of the post - not good.

There appears to be differential slab settlement - not good.

The existing shed does not appear to be bearing on the concrete, so any enclosure should not do it either.

Just an observation based on a portion of the photo -

Dick

 
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08-24-06, 09:35 AM   #8  
i will get a better pic of that.. this drive has had a full sized 4x4 parked on it every night till just recent.. so it just seems it would support a couple walls.. guess thats why i am in communications...lol i do appreciate the info sir.. and will see how thick the slab is..

 
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08-24-06, 10:00 AM   #9  
Help on closing in carport

It is really not a question of the slab thickness or the weight of the vehicle.

If you have a crack and differential settlement, the soil moved in some way or another and cannot be relied on to support a structure solidly attached to a house.

Your carport is a relatively light, flexible structure and moves enough so it probably never exerts much load on your house. It is good enough for a car port.

If you end up with a carport that is converted to the standards of a room that is attached to the house, you can expect any movement to be transferred to the house - guess what? - Sheet rock cracks and all sorts of other problem could come up because of the poor support of the "addidtion".

Dick

 
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08-24-06, 09:03 PM   #10  
Posted By: mrblue Are you saying i might not have the correct thickness of a slab to be able to Frame it in...as far as codes go.??
Yes, as I said, "Wood framing is required to be 6" above the highest point of natural grade." That and the condition of the existing slab would dictate that the slab should be replaced, because it has failed and is no longer a structural element.

And there are several reasons that a footing is required.

[/QUOTE]I just want to frame in 2 sides of my carport so i can be out of the cold during the winter for a work area, then turn it into maybe a living area next year....[/QUOTE]

Yes. It sounds so simple, doesn't it.

Here is a simplified version of how a house works. An inverted "V" with a vertical line at each end, this conceptually represents the roof and walls. A horizontal line connecting the top of the two lines representing the wall, represent the ceiling joists, and keep the "V" from flattening out and the walls from bowing out. A horizontal line at the bottom of the two lines representing the walls, represent the floor/slab and keep the walls from displacing either inward or outward. They are all necessary and there interrelation maintains the stability of the structure.

Your carport is 1/2 of a "V" and the weight of the individual components, combined, represent a total dead load of about 7.5LBS per sq.ft., split relatively equally, because of the low roof slope, between its attachment to the house and the support posts.

As mentioned, the construction components, as assembled, represent a dead load.
Wind, rain cause another "loading" value called live load. The effects of the inherent "motion" and potential deflection of this loading are resisted by the method of assembly including the attachment of the posts and the "KNEE" braces at the tops of the posts.
The wall assembly, including all the components, not only are a weight value which must be properly supported, also, because it is attached to the roof framing, become instrumental in resisting that roof live load, down thru the wall to the foundation.

As boring as this might seem, its elementary building.

 
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08-25-06, 07:48 AM   #11  
When i say attached i mean it looks to be built at the same time. carport was added probably 25 years after the house was built.. house is on pier-b.
Does that still affect the load as described above.. sorry for all the questions..
YOu are correct, simple its not

thanks a bunch don

 
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08-26-06, 08:00 AM   #12  
Well, don't be dissuaded, in new construction, a building, conceptually, changes size four times.
Also, don't talk yourself into believing that your project is beyond your capability.

Floors, ceilings, walls and roofs all have "design" loads based upon available materials used, and most normal construction will fall well within those.

Your existing dwelling being a raised foundation has no affect
on the roof loading of the carport.
Where the carport, and the method of attachment, will. If the attachment is at the intersection of the roof and walls and the carport roof rafters are "let-in" over the wall top plate, the carport roof becomes a continuation of the house roof diaphragm.
If the carport roof is attached somewhere below, to the wall framing of the house it will have an affect on the diaphragm shear of that wall and more importantly, since you intend to convert to living space, the ceiling height.

Something else to keep in mind. Municipalities "usually" will have building/planning ordinances in place which establish things like maximum lot coverage and off-street parking requirements.
So, do you have room on your lot to replace/place a parking a structure, should such an ordinance exist?

Building codes and ordinances are in place, so they say, to protect you, from you, aaaaaaannnnnnnndddddddddd, they
charge a fee for that service.

Isn't it wonderful.

 
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08-28-06, 04:30 AM   #13  
thanks a bunch, i was kinda getting a little down on the whole project... i will come back more preparred in a couple weeks..
i will get pics of inside attic and such.. i will know exactly what i am dealing with..... Heck the permit guy never even called me back.. i called his office 3 or 4 times.... once again thanks..

 
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08-28-06, 10:53 PM   #14  
Here is a link;
http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf
Also, ask questions of this sites seargh engine, as well as google.

The time will allow you to prepare, find out the business days and hours, pay them a visit.

 
mrblue's Avatar
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08-29-06, 10:25 AM   #15  
Thats a great link for me to get some reading done.. thanks a bunch.

 
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