LVL what size


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Old 02-06-07, 11:58 AM
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LVL what size

I am building a 24 deep by 28 wide Eave Entry Garage, plan on installing a 18 foot wide garage door, what size LVL header do I need, 2 pcs of 1-3/4 x 14" X 19' is what i am planning on using?
 
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Old 02-06-07, 05:36 PM
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That would be just fine, but don't forget to put a piece of 1/2" osb or plywood between the two LVL's and attach all three together. Also, you will need to have double jack studs on each side of the door for this beam to reat on. I guess you know that this beam will be very heavy once assembled. Your going to need probably 3 other people to help lift it into place. Good Luck
 
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Old 02-09-07, 12:57 PM
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I guess I'm unsure of a couple of things

first what is sitting on this I know that you said it was 24 x 28 but which one is sitting on it and if there is OH what is it. Is there a room in the upper part of this?

I'm also curious why jack is recommending 1/2 ply between a 2 1 3/4" lvl's?
 
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Old 02-09-07, 02:09 PM
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The LVL's will be the header that holds up the roof syytem. A LVL that is stated to be 1 3/4" wide, is really only about 1 5/8" wide. Side by side they would not completely cover the top of a 2x4 which is 3 1/2" wide. The LVL sandwiched with the 1/2" osb or plywood would widen the beam so it sits directly and fully on the jack stud.
 
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Old 02-09-07, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack the Contractor View Post
The LVL's will be the header that holds up the roof syytem. A LVL that is stated to be 1 3/4" wide, is really only about 1 5/8" wide. Side by side they would not completely cover the top of a 2x4 which is 3 1/2" wide. The LVL sandwiched with the 1/2" osb or plywood would widen the beam so it sits directly and fully on the jack stud.
Jack,

I've never seen an lvl smaller than 1-3/4" before. Even if they are 1-5/8" where you are, a piece of 1/2" plywood will put you at 3-3/4". How's that working in a 3-1/2" 2x4 wall?

It must be a regoinal thing because I've seen you say that you have to put a 1/2" plywood in between a 2x10 header also. I've never seen that done before either.
 
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Old 02-09-07, 05:59 PM
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Joe: it is not regional. Just go into any store and measure a 2 X ? they are all 1 1/2" Except the new cuts which are from Canada and measure 1 1/4"
1 1/2 + 1 1/2 = 3" a 2x4 is only 3 1/2" So you need to sandwich in a 1/2 x to make it come out even. Now this is how I do it. I do everything correctly.
Now you can do it however you like. But I am not going to knowingly tell someone something wrong. End of Story.
 
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Old 02-09-07, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack the Contractor View Post
Joe: it is not regional. Just go into any store and measure a 2 X ? they are all 1 1/2" Except the new cuts which are from Canada and measure 1 1/4"
1 1/2 + 1 1/2 = 3" a 2x4 is only 3 1/2" So you need to sandwich in a 1/2 x to make it come out even. Now this is how I do it. I do everything correctly.
Now you can do it however you like. But I am not going to knowingly tell someone something wrong. End of Story.

Jack,

First of all, I never said what you did was wrong. I know what a 2x measures. Around here they all measure 1-1/2". I don't have to go into any store to measure them. So 2-2x10's measure 3" for a header. We nail them together and nail a 2x4 on the bottom and toenail the top of the header into the top plates.

We DO NOT HAVE TO ADD 1/2" PLYWOOD in between. Youíre saying that you do, that's fine. We don't have to. So it's NOT WRONG and I'm not telling anyone to do it the WRONG way either.

Just because I do things different than you, doesn't mean that I'm wrong and your right, or that I'm telling people knowingly do something the wrong way. That's simply not true.

This is a public forum Jack and people from all over the world. We all do things different. Your way isnít the only way and right way.

We just do things different Jack and your way isn't wrong and my way isn't wrong. Where I'm from, no one puts 1/2" plywood in between headers and its code and passes all inspections and all Architectural and Engineered drawings are all the same way with no plywood in between.


What about your lvl's that measure 1-5/8" and putting 1/2" plywood in between them and them measuring 3-3/4". What do you do with the 1/4" that's wider than a 3-1/2" 2x4 wall?
 
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Old 02-10-07, 10:16 AM
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I don't want to get in the middle of a disagreement, but what Jack's saying is how I was taught to make up headers a long time ago. I'm not a carpenter, but I worked 3 summers as a framer while in school and that's how we did it. I still pound nails now and then and still make headers that way.
I'm sure it's a regional thing. I live in the Northeast.

On the other hand, I have a doubled 1 3/4" LVL as a header in my garage. It measures 3 1/2". I think it's possible that the width may depend on the manufacturer.
 
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Old 02-10-07, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell View Post
I don't want to get in the middle of a disagreement, but what Jack's saying is how I was taught to make up headers a long time ago. I'm not a carpenter, but I worked 3 summers as a framer while in school and that's how we did it. I still pound nails now and then and still make headers that way.
I'm sure it's a regional thing. I live in the Northeast.

On the other hand, I have a doubled 1 3/4" LVL as a header in my garage. It measures 3 1/2". I think it's possible that the width may depend on the manufacturer.

Wayne,

I've been a Framing Contractor for 23 years now and I frame according to the codes and all Architectural and Engineered plans. When there's a change with any part of the framing I change it. I would never offer information about framing that is WRONG as Jack puts it.

It's not fair for him to say me not putting 1/2" plywood in between 2-2x10's is wrong. Just because he does it that way and has always done it that way does not make it right and my way is wrong. It's that simple.

Is this just a one sided forum. I participate on other forums starting four years ago and thought that my way was the only way to frame other than framing walls and sheathing them first and lifting them. I framed that way in Cape Cod back in 1984. I thought that I was seeing things.

We don't do that here in NJ, we frame all our walls and raise them with NO sheathing on and then sheath later. Is my way wrong, no? Is the way Cape Cod frames wrong, no.

You said so yourself that you were taught to make up headers the same way Jack does which is great. I don't and was taught not to use 1/2" plywood. Am I wrong? No.

There are many different ways of framing obviously and it is a regional thing. There are guys that stick frame walls and rafters 24" centers which I thought was nuts because we frame walls and rafters @16" centers. Is there way wrong. no. They can frame that way, we can't.

If the original poster for this thread is from the same place Jack is, then they have to frame Jack's way and my way would be wrong. To sit here and say that one way is wrong because posters here do it another way is wrong.

On other forums when I discuss framing, I always say, “where I’m from, we can do this or that and you have to check with you’re codes”.

I’m not here to disagree or argue someone else’s framing styles and codes if they are different then mine, but I’m not going to tell someone else here that their way is wrong because they don’t do it my way.

Jack even said that his lvl’s measure 1-5/8”. So two of them measure 3-1/4”. He then says that he puts Ĺ” in between those which would give him 3-3/4”. How do you explain putting a header that measure 3-3/4” in width in a 3-1/2” 2x4 wall?

Am I not allowed to question that?
 
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Old 02-10-07, 01:53 PM
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Joe your getting way to tense over this issue. I know there are several ways to frame. But by putting the LVL's on top of a 2x4 for a garage header, it raises the header by 1 1/2", which in many cases is too high for the other walls or the top plate. Usually the garage doorway is framed last. I always try to make my lumber fit. Does it take a little longer ? Yes it does. Obviously if my LVL's are 1 5/8", I would not use 1/2" sandwich. Cut to fit. End of this subject. Wayne, keep up the good work.
 
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Old 02-10-07, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack the Contractor View Post
Joe your getting way to tense over this issue. I know there are several ways to frame. But by putting the LVL's on top of a 2x4 for a garage header, it raises the header by 1 1/2", which in many cases is too high for the other walls or the top plate. Usually the garage doorway is framed last. I always try to make my lumber fit. Does it take a little longer ? Yes it does. Obviously if my LVL's are 1 5/8", I would not use 1/2" sandwich. Cut to fit. End of this subject. Wayne, keep up the good work.
Jack,

I'm not getting to tense over this issue. I'm just having a discussion. If you can't have a simple discussion then don't tell other people that they're given out WRONG information when they don't do things your way. Would you like it if I told you that you were wrong? It seems like when someone questions something that you say you don't like it and want to "End the subject". Itís a normal conversation about building Jack. You still say that Iím wrong for not using ĹĒ plywood between headers? I ask this because this is a public forum and people do read it ever day.

People who read here should know that there are many different ways of doing things but ultimately they have to follow their codes. Maybe your way works or my way works, itís worth discussing.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say lvl's sitting on top of a 2x4 means. I said that I put 2x4's on the bottom of 2x10 headers not lvl's. Besides garage headers vary in height all the time depending oh what height the walls are. Sometimes I have to put the header tight to the bottom plate and sometimes the header is down from the top plate with cripples above. It's all different.
 
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Old 02-10-07, 04:19 PM
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My mistake. You put in on the bottom of 2x10's. Well, whatever you put in on the bottom of, it still makes it 1 1/2inches higher.
 
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Old 02-10-07, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack the Contractor View Post
My mistake. You put in on the bottom of 2x10's. Well, whatever you put in on the bottom of, it still makes it 1 1/2inches higher.
Jack,

When we frame with 8' walls using 8' precuts (92-5/8") we use 2-2x10 headers with a 2x4 cap on the bottom (that's what we call them) and that sets every window, exterior (some) and interior 6'8" door heights at the proper height for us. That gives us 83-1/8" off the deck. So that cap isn't anything structural, it's just there because it puts us at the right height. If we didn't do it then we would have to go back and do it later.

When we frame with 9' and 10' precuts, we set the bottom of the headers at 83-1/8"" inches off the floor and put cripples above the headers and into the top plates.

I've framed many houses and additions that were specked with all 3-1/2" x 9-1/2" lvl's or bigger. Sometimes with custom wall heights we even have to put in flush headers or even cut out the first of the two top plates.
 
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Old 03-01-07, 06:11 AM
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Adding 1/2" plywood between two 2X material on edge serves as a flitch plate and adds strength to the assembly. I would use this for a 16' garage door header (assembled with construction adhesive and cement coated nails) if there were no loads above. For anything more, like an 18' garage door opening or other loads above the opening, I prefer to use a Gluelam beam as it has a slight camber. For smaller openings, pieces of 1/2" plywood serve as a spacer to get the header thickness up to 3'1/2". I can also see where using a 2x4 on the bottom to produce a flush nailing surface would also work. This seems a little less efficient use of wood and it also diminshes the insulatability of the area above the opening (if any). When I travel to other parts of the country it is interesting to see how different practices exist. For example, on framing for doors and windows, I've seen the headers placed directly under the top plates with cripples below the header and a 2x4 (or 2x6 for 2x6 walls) used for the top of the opening. In some places, when framing for windows, they cut the Jacks for the sill. In other places, they put a cripple under each end of the sill. In other places, they use neither.
 
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Old 03-01-07, 08:24 AM
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"on framing for doors and windows, I've seen the headers placed directly under the top plates with cripples below the header and a 2x4 (or 2x6 for 2x6 walls) used for the top of the opening."

I never considered this, but I like the idea because it would make later reframing for a retrofit of a taller door/window much simpler. Of course the jack studs would have to run all the way up to the header.
 
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Old 03-18-07, 05:12 PM
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Hi,

This thread caught my eye since I need to select a header for a two car carport that I am enclosing with 2 x 4 non-load bearing walls as a garage. The opening is on the gable end, so no roof load, but it would need to support a sectional garage door and auto door opener. All of the engineered wood tables I've found so far assume eave entry and therfore roof loads. Probably will use a standard 16' wide door, but might consider one 17' or 18' if these work ok. Assuming I'll need glulam or LVL or eqiv., but could build up 2x and osb if this would bear typical loads.


Grommet
Tempe, AZ
 
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Old 03-19-07, 10:33 PM
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OK,

Reviewing parts of the thread I missed earlier, I see that charm_3 recommended built-up 2x/ply sandwich beams only for openings up to 16'. I also ran across a thread on another forum where a guy used same for 18' and ended up with 1 1/2" of sag...so I will likely go with glulam or LVL.

Framing with 2 x 4 so doubled 1 3/4" LVL sounds easy. Glulam would be great as well in either 3 1/8" or 3 1/2" What depth of beam would be appropriate given no roof loads(I have enough space for a headeer up to 14" deep, but that would lots of beam for the door and beam weight alone). Also if using doulbled 1 3/4" LVL, how would I go about fastening them together inplace , so that I would only have to lift up half the weight at a time. I remember seeing a nailing spec for composite 2x beams in a table somwhere...would that and construction adhesive work?

Thanks,

Grommet
 
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Old 03-25-07, 12:57 AM
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In figuring the best choice for a garage door header on the gable end of a carport, It seems like the door and possibly the opener weight would be the only weight supported (garagedoorsupply.com has a nifty weight calculator for different sizes and materials of garage doors).

If I assume 450 lbs for an 18 ft steel, insulated door with lots of trusses, can I also assume that the weight would be uniformly distributed along the header? Would that mean that the header would only be supporting itself plus 25 lbs per lineal ft?

Grommet
 
 

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