Potentially Adding Floor Above Garage


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Old 03-09-07, 11:59 PM
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Potentially Adding Floor Above Garage

Hi, I hope I can use educated language to convey my question. Let me know where clarification is needed. I'm handy but have no framing experience.

We recently purchased a home built in 1946, and the previous owner was nice enough to leave some architectural plans he had made for a lift of the garage roof to build a larger master suite as a 2nd floor.

Currently, I'm working to finish the garage and insulate it. The rafters?/joists? that run across the ceiling are VERY small maybe 1"x3" and are crudely put together to make the 20'x20' span of the garage.

My question is when I go to place new ceiling joists this weekend, I'd like to use wood that would both make a nice finised ceiling but allow us to possibly add that master suite above if the time came. Any other considerations? What would you recommend if I was just planning a ceiling with no storgae above or future master suite?

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-10-07, 01:38 AM
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Your local building material supplier (and even Home Depot or Lowe's) can provide this design service. Basically, they will need to know the exact dimensions and the bearing surface and clearances. For example, if you're planning on installing new ceiling joists now but not raising the roof above, there may be issues with clipping the tops of one or both ends of the new joists (this would be the case if either end of the joists will rest on walls that have hip roofs over one or both ends). If designed for a future "habitable" space above, they will be considered floor joists, otherwise they will be considered ceiling joists. Actually, the building supply house will turn it over to Boise Cascade or Georgia Pacific (or perhaps even some other engineered lumber manufacturer/provided in your area) structural engineers who use a computer program to calculate loads and deflections.

You stated that the existing joists are "small maybe 1" x 3" and crudely put together". It is highly unlikely that they are less than 2" x 4" material (which would have actual dimensions of 1.5" x 3.5". I also suspect that they may be even be field-fabricated trusses that utilize plywood or metal gussets at the connection points.

One problem often encountered when making a second floor addition is figuring out where to put code-compliant stairs.

I will assume from your post that the there is currently no finished ceiling. If you only want to finish out the garage with drywall and the ceiling has held up since 1946, I'd say it would probably handle drywall as it is.
 
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Old 03-10-07, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BQuicksilver View Post
My question is when I go to place new ceiling joists this weekend, I'd like to use wood that would both make a nice finised ceiling but allow us to possibly add that master suite above if the time came. Any other considerations? What would you recommend if I was just planning a ceiling with no storgae above or future master suite?
Here are a couple of links which will allow you to better understand how things work as well as more easily convey your interests.
http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf
http://www.southernpine.com/spantables.shtml
http://www.realtor.org/rmomag.NSF/pages/arch33
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/91q2/contract.html

You might want to reconsider placing your ceiling joists, at least until you have budgeted for the future.
 
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Old 03-10-07, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the replies! BTW: This will be done alongside my father who has significantly more woodworking/framing experience than myself. I wanted to to post here for extra insight and a little more confidence in what we're doing.

I'm digging through those links as I write.

For the time being, a picture is worth 1000 words...especially when the poster can't talk shop as well as he'd like.

The top of the wall we're getting ready to finish/wire:


The size of the puny joists (2x4 on left, joist nailed to it on right, 12ga romex also in photo. They're definitely not 1.5" wide, and most (not all) of them are that thin.


More of the area:


More:
 
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Old 03-10-07, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BQuicksilver View Post
The top of the wall we're getting ready to finish/wire:
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/BQuicksilver/Joists4.
jpg[/IMG]

Interesting. A conventional hip roof with 1x6 collar ties and rafter ties and a california tie-in. Both the low and high voltage wiring is a mess.
 
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Old 03-10-07, 11:47 PM
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Most of the wiring is temporary since we plan to take it all down. The low voltage stuff is bad b/c we are changing the garage door opener today. You see both the old wiring coming down and the new not wired in yet.

Any advice on how we should tackle the joist issue?
 

Last edited by BQuicksilver; 03-11-07 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 03-11-07, 11:21 AM
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Floor Joists

The floor joists for the second floor will need to set on top of the wall plate where the ends of the rafters are now located. This can only happen after the roof is removed.
 
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Old 03-11-07, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Wirepuller38 View Post
The floor joists for the second floor will need to set on top of the wall plate where the ends of the rafters are now located. This can only happen after the roof is removed.
Simplifys things. Thank you.
 
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Old 03-11-07, 08:24 PM
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Not to be a buzzkill, but...Just a thought that I don't see mentioned here...

Not sure where you live, but if you plan on adding a habitable floor above the garage, you might need a permit...which will require load (live, dead, roof, wind, maybe snow) calcs...connection details...electrical plans...plumbing (etc.), all signed off on by engineers and/or GCs
 
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Old 03-12-07, 09:47 AM
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I live in Indiana, which in most cases means minimal red tape in life. The idea to add the floor was based upon plans drawn by an architect, so 'maybe' some things are already lined out. It looks like I'll just worry about the garage for now and think about the raised roof if that time comes.
 
 

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