New Construction Framing Screwup! Please Help!

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Old 08-22-10, 09:27 PM
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New Construction Framing Screwup! Please Help!

We are currently having our home framed and it is aboout 90% framed. We have a 2 ft cantilever coming out for the bedroom. We were walking around the house tonight and noticed that the cantilever has a very noticeable slope to it. We took 1 of the 2x8s sitting there and put it on its side and noticed it was about 1/2" off all of the way along the cantilever. Please give me any advice on the situation. I just don't want them to shim it (or do I)? What does everyone think? Sorry for the crude drawing.

 
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Old 08-23-10, 05:17 AM
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Drawing

We cannot see your drawing????

Are the original floor joists extended out to form the cantilever?
 

Last edited by Wirepuller38; 08-23-10 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Added question.
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Old 08-23-10, 07:53 AM
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Apparently my drawing was removed from the site. It just shows that the floor to ceiling is 8ft until it reaches the cantilever where it is 8ft 1/2". I don't know, everything is enclosed now.
 

Last edited by danreg99; 08-23-10 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 08-23-10, 09:38 AM
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Dan, we are going to need more details, but at the initial construction level, there shouldn't be any slope and NOW would be the time to fix it. Pictures could help.
http://forum.doityourself.com/electr...your-post.html

Bud
 
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Old 08-23-10, 09:53 AM
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Here is my rendering via Microsoft Paint. Pretty terrible drawing but hopefully it will help

Here is the link

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53258684@N02/4920489098/
 
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Old 08-23-10, 10:16 AM
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What kind of load is over the cantilever?

I'd want the structure addressed, if the floor joists aren't stout enough, maybe sistering another joist too each one will help. I'd expect you'd need to jack up the sag so it will be level. I wouldn't want the floor shimmed to make it level.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
What kind of load is over the cantilever?

I'd want the structure addressed, if the floor joists aren't stout enough, maybe sistering another joist too each one will help. I'd expect you'd need to jack up the sag so it will be level. I wouldn't want the floor shimmed to make it level.
What do you mean what kind of load? I am very new to framing so excuse my ignorance.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 12:47 PM
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Dan, your drawing doesn't show which direction the floor joists are running. Left to right as drawn so that each joist is supported on the foundation and extends out the extra two feet? Also, what dimension are the joists, 2x10" or other?

Bud
 
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Old 08-23-10, 01:40 PM
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Bud,

The floor joists are those pre-fab joists (not 2x8, 2x10) and are running north and south. I can't see how they come out of the house so I guess I dont know how it was framed. Maybe I could contact the building inspector to come out there with me?
 
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Old 08-23-10, 02:05 PM
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Why aren't you talking to your builder? It's tough to offer advice based on what you're providing.

How did you determine the joists were out 1/2"
Is it a bearing wall?
Is the problem parallel or perpendicular to the joists. I would imagine that joists running parallel to the outside wall would have to be supported beyond the foundation.

The fact that the I joists are running "North/South" isn't a whole lot of help.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 02:09 PM
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I know this seems kind of silly...but have you asked the builder? If what you describe are the I-joists...they normally wouldn't flex over a 2 ft span.

Is it possible there will be addl plywood installed on the floor, and it was just skipped?
 
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Old 08-23-10, 02:25 PM
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They may have forgotten the side plywood stiffeners, look underneath, pages #6 and #10: http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf

Be safe, Gary
 
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Old 08-23-10, 02:27 PM
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Dan, when you say north and south, per your diagram, are you saying front to back as opposed to left and right. You could try another diagram showing a top view and indicate the foundation and those joists.

Bear with us, as we speak a different language and it takes some back and forth to get everything figured out. And, as GG and Wayne have said, at some point you are going to need to talk to the builder or building inspector. If this is a structure problem, you will need all of the professional backing you can get.

Bud
 
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Old 08-23-10, 02:59 PM
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You can post pictures as easily as drawings and it would show much more. How far back into the house does the cantilevered lumber extend?
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:01 PM
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Bud,

Thanks for your info and yes we do speak a different language. I am not well versed in construction but going through this will hopefully change some of that. Here is another drawing from above.

down | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Chandler,

I will be going there tonight to take pictures and will post.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:13 PM
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That doesn't show a cantilever, what supports the bump out?
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:15 PM
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That drawing is not a cantilever but an add on. You have no support from the joists if those are the floor joists. There must be foundation walls underneath, at least on the sides with a beam or LVL supporting the outside wall above.

Be safe, Gary
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:15 PM
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Marks,

I will be going there tonight to grab some pics.

Gary,

I don't know if I am using the correct terminology or not. There is not a foundation underneath the "bump out". I will take outside as well as inside pics tonight. Thank you for all the info provided.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:35 PM
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Is this on the first floor? Maybe they thought it was a porch. A porch would angle down.
 
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Old 08-23-10, 03:42 PM
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We still need to be certain what we are seeing is correct, but if that is the direction of the joists, there needs to be something else, very substantial, to hold that cantilever up. I will wait for pictures.

Bud
 
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Old 08-23-10, 08:29 PM
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Here are the pics I took. What do you think? I will be talking to the builder tomorrow. The bump out on the outside was level so I don't know what it going on?



outside by danreg99, on Flickr


unlevel2 by danreg99, on Flickr


unlevel by danreg99, on Flickr


inside by danreg99, on Flickr
 
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Old 08-23-10, 09:17 PM
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The first picture was too dark for me to see. If it was for others here an adjusted version.

 
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Old 08-23-10, 10:14 PM
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That's a new arrangement to me, but this isn't my primary field. I don't see any nails or bolts and it doesn't look like it is bearing on anything. In other words, is it just being held up by the attachment to those vertical 2x6's on the outside wall with nothing under them? I'll let the pros comment, but it does look like it has the potential for someone to have forgotten to use a level and I'm not sure it is supported correctly. Let's see what others say about the pictures.

Bud
 
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Old 08-24-10, 04:51 AM
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Which way are your floor joists running in relation to this bump out? The unlevel flooring is inexcusable, and should be attended to. What is holding this unit up? Is there any cantilever floor framing that extends into the main structure (generally twice the amount of the cantilever's exterior)
 
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Old 08-24-10, 07:36 AM
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Chandler,

the joists are running parallel to the bump out as you can see in the pic. There is lumber coming into the house (it's in one of the pics).
 
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Old 08-24-10, 10:33 AM
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It looks like it has 2xs cantilevered out to support the bump out. The house has floor trusses and the cantilevered 2xs are attached to the outer 2 trusses. I'm not a carpenter but would think that would be ok. The fact that it's not level with the rest of the floor framing is not ok.
 
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Old 08-24-10, 11:11 AM
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Our realtor has talked to the contractor and he is very upset that we are "nitpicking" work that isn't complete. In fact, he no longer wants us to go out there anymore due to liability reasons. I understand his thinking on that but how much more complete can a framer get? Wouldn't this be fixed before the plywood would be laid? I thought we were doing him a favor finding this so early in the process. Am I being overly critical?
 
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Old 08-24-10, 11:27 AM
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It depends on your relationship with the contractor...but I understand his point to some extent. Also depends on whether you already own the land and are having the house built..or if this is more of a development with custom homes. If the latter....then technically you are trespassing.

When I had a house built...I worked pretty well with the site manager. In fact I was the one who let him know that the foundation for the fireplace was about 18" off and would be right under a window location....this was after they had already framed the second floor...and no one had caught it. I was also in the 2nd situation above. He was actually appreciative, but said I shouldn't be on the site for legal reasons. It kind of gave me insight on how much HE was onsite, though he was building 5-6 homes at once.

I'd assume that those 2x members are nailed from the side we can't see...but there's just no excuse for them putting the plywood right over an un-level area like that. The supervisor should have caught that immediately. It will be much more work to correct now.

Interesting how the contractor calls that nit-picking...instead of explaining they were aware of the issue and that it would be fixed.
 
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Old 08-24-10, 11:27 AM
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Marksr, I'm in your boat as not being a real carpenter, but I would have preferred to see a header under those 2x's to provide a uniform support. The bump doesn't look load bearing, but just nailing those to the vertical 2x6's and the verticals of the trusses leaves room for error.

Another detail Dan, you mention an 8' ceiling in the house and 8' 1/2" where the bump is. In most homes, the ceiling height before the drywall goes up should be about 8' 3/4". The 3/4" is to allow the 1/2" drywall to go on the ceiling first and then two 4' pieces of drywall running side to side with a quarter inch below to leverage them up tight. If the floor to ceiling is exactly 8', then I would wonder if the crew knew how to frame. Easy for me to criticize as they can't throw me in the dumpster.

Bud

Sorry for typing so slow .
 

Last edited by Bud9051; 08-24-10 at 11:30 AM. Reason: slow post
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Old 08-24-10, 12:12 PM
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Bud,

I was making reference that it was about 1/2 " off. I was trying to make it easier to describe it. Maybe the GC would have found this error after walking through it or maybe not. I don't think it would have been caught though.
 
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Old 08-24-10, 01:26 PM
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They did sloppy work. They sheathed the bay framing before setting the floor level and building the walls. The sheathing is level because it was cut square as it should be. Looking from outside is un-noticeable because it is covered up. The solid wood floor framing may be engineered to attach as it is, or not. They may be voiding the warranty by attaching anything to the truss chords. Putting extra stain (loads- down or up-lift) on the truss web verticals would be my concern. The sidewall sheathing takes some of the load of the bay, but depends on the house/bay stud connection. Missing is the ledger or studs down to the bottom plate at the house wall supporting each cantilevered solid wood joist. Look around for the truss manufacturer's name for us to see if this arrangement is posted on their web site. The picture shows a stamp on the bottom of the truss but I am unable to make it out. I would not be too worried unless they don't run studs for support, as mentioned. That would take the loads from the trusses directly to the house wall, down loads. The uplift would be minimal.
One wonders about the rest, no required gaps between OSB edges and ends: http://osbguide.tecotested.com/pdfs/en/el812.pdf
They may just pour some self-leveling compound on the floor later....

Be safe, Gary
 
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Old 08-24-10, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by danreg99 View Post
We took 1 of the 2x8s sitting there and put it on its side and noticed it was about 1/2" off all of the way along the cantilever.
Is the discarded 2x8 warped or is the floor really that out of level? Sorry I had to ask.

Never mind I see all kinds of evidence after looking at the pictures better.
 
 

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