Bouncing Floors

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Old 12-28-10, 09:47 AM
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Bouncing Floors

Well I think I know the answer but before I toss money at this I thought I'd ask the question first.

I live in a new construction home which has two floors and a basement. The floors bounce when you walk across them. The builder has build to minimum code so I have no recourse (as far as I know). The main floor is build on 2x10 joists across several 13 to 15 foot spans, all 16" on center. The 2x10s are individually not longer than 16'. There is no blocking at all between the joists.

I was going to place blocking every 4' to strengthen the flooring and distribute the weight better. After reading several posts here I have seen folks sistering quite a bit and I didn't think that would be required but it sounds like I should ask before blocking. No sense on making extra work for myself.

Oh, currently I have vinyl on the kitchen floor and may wife said I will be laying tile in the near future, so I know bouncing floors is bad for tile.

And since the basement is not finished, I plan to install a few walls once I have a proper flooring in place. That should stablize some of the bouncing as well.

Last question (sorry, I have a million of them)... Screws or nails for the blocking? I could lay my hands on a framing nailer (need one anyway when I finish the basement), or I could use 3" screws, but nails are cheaper.

I'm handy with my hands, have all the tools I need to frame except the framing nailer, but I do have a hammer and know how to use it
 
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Old 12-28-10, 01:39 PM
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Welcome to the forums! "minimum" means less than the best. In fact it means just above substandard crap, so with that said, sorry to hear of your problem. Why he didn't use TGI laminated beams is beyond me. May have been cheaper than the lumber he wound up using, not sure. Blocking may help some, but you are at the limit of the Maximum span of the boards he used, if they were SYP. Is it still exposed?? If so, couldn't you have him do the job right? Sistering is an answer, and will almost but not quite double the strength of the joists.
Nailing is the quickest method, but screwing with 3" torx screws works fine.
 
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Old 12-28-10, 04:42 PM
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If you plan on building walls below, do it first. If you can shorten the joist span to 13' or less by building a supporting wall you should be ok to install ceramic (but not natural stone) tile.

Blocking between the joists will be insufficient if you have a 15' span. You could sister the joists as well, if you don't want to build a support structure from below.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 10:57 AM
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Both, thanks for your comments.

The basement is fully open so I can sister the joists without problem and I suspect I'll glue and screw it all together. I was really hoping to get away with blocking between the joists alone but I guess I'll drop a a cool grand ($700 for the sisters, $200 for the blocking, and $100 or more on glue and screws). And about 1/5th the basement is ~15' span.

If you think the blocking is not going to gain me any appreciable gain, please let me know and I won't order the extra wood to be delivered.

Thanks,
Mark
 
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Old 12-29-10, 01:23 PM
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Mark

The info I gave you is for ceramic tile. If you are only installing ceramic tile in the kitchen, you'll only need to sister the joists below the kitchen. Your estimate to do that seems real high, unless you have a really big kitchen.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 03:28 PM
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Johnny,
The cost was for the entire main floor, not just the kitchen. It's just over 70 16' 2x10's. There are steel beams supporting the joists and the builder just overlapped the joists on those beams where they were long runs (I have a lot of that). In the kitchen area alone I will be able to sister all but two of the boards due to plumbing lines going through the subfloor. As for the number of boards I'd need for the kitchen, looks like 15 16' 2x10's will be a good start but since I have an open concept I really need to carry it through to the family room as well, that and since I need to pull one electrical wire for the basement lighting, I'd rather do that once.

Now that I'm thinking about it, this will not be easy. I'm curious how I'm going to wedge the new boards into such a tight spot. I guess a really big hammer? (Thor's Hammer will do) Any videos on how to pound this bad boy home? I've seen it on TV but it looks so easy.

Also, you said this is only for ceramic. Why's that? I know ceramic is cheaper in general but is there a flexability to it or a reason it's more desirable on wooden or bouncy floors? I'm also looking at using Ditra or some other isolating membrane as I understand it would keep the tiles from cracking. Now to be honest with you, the tile job may be farmed out to someone who knows what they are doing (I hope). I would take no pleasure in doing the job myself as my paitience is low and it's a lot of tile as we want to tile the sun room as well.

Have a Happy New Year!

Mark
 
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Old 12-30-10, 07:03 AM
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Mark

If you plan on building walls below, do it first. If you can shorten the joist span to 13' or less by building a supporting wall you should be ok to install ceramic (but not natural stone) tile.
My comment was for ceramic tile vs natural stone and building a support wall below to shorten the span. Natural stone needs a much stiffer floor than ceramic tile. If you wanted to install natural stone (slate, travertine, granite etc) You would have to shorten the span to about 10'.

I'm a tile guy, so I'm not sure what you would need for hardwood or other types of flooring.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:21 AM
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Johnny,
Thanks for the answer, it's appreciated. I have no idea what my wife would want to put on the floor but now that I understand your comments, I can plan accordingly. After sistering the joists, and depending on what my wife wants for tile, I may be installing a floor and some walls in the basement first.

Everyone here has definately hellped me understand what I need to do and I thank you all.

-Mark
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:33 AM
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Mark, the support wall or a beam would be the best way. Sistering works as well, but its often difficult with plumbing, electric, ductwork etc in the way. All joists beneth the tiled area would need to be sistered if thats the route you take.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 12:03 PM
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Late jump in, but I agree with Johnny on the beam if you have the space for it and it doesn't mess with your headroom. Much easier and probably more substantial than trying to sister the joists..
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:16 PM
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The basement has just over 8' headroom so once I sheet rock it, it will feel a little small but not too bad. I would love to install walls but the basement is a blank canvas and we have no idea what we want to do with it. I'm thinking of a mother-in-law type area. A bedroom, bath, living room, and some sort of minimal kitchen area (not oven or stove, maybe a microwave and frige and sink). That would take up half the basement, the other half I'd like to use for storage as I actually use my garage for my truck, and some tools of course.

Maybe I should make a layout for the basement and even see if a wall would be a good idea under the kitchen area, maybe even a closet I guess would be fine.

Thanks for the advice,
Mark
 
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Old 01-22-11, 07:01 AM
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Yes, they are annoying. I'll be ordering the lumber to sister the joists in early March, enough to do the entire main floor plus a little extra for cross bracing at just over a meter apart. I'm going to do all this work so I don't have to do something again later since that would probably be after I have the basement finished. I will install walls in the basement but not many since I want to keep the open consept. The bathroom and bedroom will have full walls of course.
 
 

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