Half wall - best way to reinforce?
#1
04-30-11, 04:14 PM
Half wall - best way to reinforce?
I have framed a half wall between the toilet and the bathtub.
The wall only goes up 48" high and is attached to the concrete slab below and screwed to the wall stub on it's back.
However, if I hold on to the front corner of the framed wall, and push it - it will move a little to the left and right.
Is there some way I can reinforce it so it would not move? I know once I attached sheetrock and tiles it probably would be sturdy but then again, it may crack the tiles if it ever moves.
The wall only goes up 48" high and is attached to the concrete slab below and screwed to the wall stub on it's back.
However, if I hold on to the front corner of the framed wall, and push it - it will move a little to the left and right.
Is there some way I can reinforce it so it would not move? I know once I attached sheetrock and tiles it probably would be sturdy but then again, it may crack the tiles if it ever moves.
#2
04-30-11, 10:12 PM
Not sure how you framed the wall and if you screwed and glued it all together and also used double 2x's on the ends and top and bottom plates, but regardless I would think that if you sheet with Durarock rather than drywall you will have even less structural wood movement and a far less chance for future tile problems.
#3
05-01-11, 03:26 AM
In reality, nothing you add as a covering will add enough structural stability to keep it from moving. Whatever you choose for an outer covering will be just that, a covering. The point where it meets the floor is ground zero. I would drill for at least 3/8 if not 1/2" lag shields (2 each 2 1/2" long) toward the end and run 4" lag bolts into the concrete. Once that is done, the end board should overlap the bottom plate, and the one next to it should sit on the plate, both being fastened with 3" torx screws. Don't use sheetrock type screws, use decking screws. Do the same thing with the top plates, except in reverse. Allow your top plate to overlap the outside vertical, install your second plate, then your second stud, tying them all together with screws. Others may have different ideas, so stay tuned.
#4
05-01-11, 05:45 AM
Member
Have you tried having someone move the wall while you look for where the movement is coming from? My guess is that the movement you are getting is not from where the bottom plate meets the floor. It's where the half studs attach to the plates. If you face nailed the studs to the plate and then tipped up the wall that joint is probably what's moving. The same is true for the top plate.
Nails are not especially efficient under tension. I agree with Chandler that sheetrock or CBU will not stabilize the wall and this is a situation where deck screws will do a much better job.
Another option is to sheath the wall with plywood. If you fasten it to the top and bottom plates you'll et a sturdy wall. You can tile right over the plywood if you use mastic.
Nails are not especially efficient under tension. I agree with Chandler that sheetrock or CBU will not stabilize the wall and this is a situation where deck screws will do a much better job.
Another option is to sheath the wall with plywood. If you fasten it to the top and bottom plates you'll et a sturdy wall. You can tile right over the plywood if you use mastic.
#5
05-01-11, 06:51 AM
Nails have very little grip when sent directly into the end grain like that. A nail gets it's grip by going across the wood fibers and breaking them. The broken wood fibers act like barbs and provide the resistance against the nail pulling out. When sent directly into the end grain, the nail is parallel with the wood fibers and you don't get that effect. You should be toe nailing for strength.
#6
05-01-11, 07:20 AM
I apologize for not formulating my question properly and caused confusion.
The bottom plate of the half wall has NO movement. It is attached solidly to the concrete slab. The back side of the wall has no movement, it is attached to the studs in the back.
The movement comes from the front side where it is not braced against anything. It is not moving in the "plane" of the wall. The movement is lateral.
Here is a picture of the wall.
For example, if I am talking to someone, and he leans on that wall, I can tell this wall will shift a little on the outside corner. To the right of this wall is where the toilet will go.
I don't want to tile the face of the wall later and if someone leans on it big time and it moves and pops the tiles.
The bottom plate of the half wall has NO movement. It is attached solidly to the concrete slab. The back side of the wall has no movement, it is attached to the studs in the back.
The movement comes from the front side where it is not braced against anything. It is not moving in the "plane" of the wall. The movement is lateral.
Here is a picture of the wall.
For example, if I am talking to someone, and he leans on that wall, I can tell this wall will shift a little on the outside corner. To the right of this wall is where the toilet will go.
I don't want to tile the face of the wall later and if someone leans on it big time and it moves and pops the tiles.
#7
05-01-11, 07:23 AM
I have in the past used 12" steel corner irons and 1-1/2" lag screws to fasten the last stud to the plate. For extra strength instead of lag screwing to the plate bolt through the plate into the concrete.
I have never seen that big of a corner iron at a Big Box but I get them from an old time lumber yard. A metal shop could make one up for you if you can't find one. It needs to be at least 3/16" thick steel. If you have it made get it at least 16" high by 1-1/2" wide.
I have never seen that big of a corner iron at a Big Box but I get them from an old time lumber yard. A metal shop could make one up for you if you can't find one. It needs to be at least 3/16" thick steel. If you have it made get it at least 16" high by 1-1/2" wide.
#8
05-01-11, 07:24 AM
Then it's exactly what Wayne has described. Toe screw all the studs into the bottom plate. If that doesn't work or isn't enough, try adding another 2x4 to the end and screw it to the top and bottom plate and the existing stud.
I don’t see anything I can do to correct this situation except to fur out a properly sized load-bearing wall in front of the existing exterior wall. I would like to support the 2x12 floor joists above with a 4x12 Parallam. I would carry the load down to the foundation wall using 4x6 posts and building up the sill plate under the subfloor. See drawing below.
Does anyone see a problem with this approach?
Thanks for taking the time to read my post.