Fix cut hole in 2 x 10 floor joist.

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  #1  
Old 02-18-12, 04:09 PM
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Fix cut hole in 2 x 10 floor joist.

I bought a house with a slight dip in the first floor. I noticed that 5 of the floor joists have a cut hole through them. This hole I believe is against code. I'm looking for help in not only fixing the dip but strengthening the joist.





 
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  #2  
Old 02-18-12, 04:56 PM
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Ouch, not a easy fix. Crawlspace or unfinished basement ? Assume support posts or walls are out of the equation ? ...

First I would make sure the joists are actually sagging by pulling a string tight from one end to the other along the bottom edge and see how much they are sagged. It is possible a carpenter put a run of "crowns down" joists in rather than crowns up... ??

Jacking up each joist straight and then installing a new joist along side the sagged one, then glueing and bolting through the old joist works well. But whenever there is electrical/plumbing run through the sagged joist as you have, makes that method expensive to get those moved by pros, unless you are a plumber /electrician...


It may also be possible there is enough undrilled wood/clean spot along the sides of the joists, to jack up one at a time and bolt a 1/2 inch thick by possibly a 6 inch inch wide (tall) piece of steel with 1/2 carriage bolts through the steel /wood. This piece of steel is called a fische plate (sp?) and would need to span the full length of the joist and set almsost above the beam/pier supports. ...

Hard to tell what may work for you from where I am sitting, maybe some of my ideas may work, then maybe not. Someone else will be along shortly to pitch with better ideas hopefully. Good luck to you.
 
  #3  
Old 02-18-12, 04:57 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Those holes are too close to the bottom edges of the joists. If you can afford to give up the floor space, the most effective fix will be a beam supporting the joists. Use jack posts which will allow taking out the sag. One near each end might be enough, but for the distance involved, I'd probably use one at each end plus one in the middle.

The posts have a screw thread on one end which is what allows the adjustment.

Good luck with your project.
 
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Old 02-18-12, 04:57 PM
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You didn't provide any exact measurements so we can only guess based on what we perceive from the pictures.

If your joist is a 2x10 (an average of 9 1/2" wide) bored holes are OK to 1/3 the size of the joist(up to 3 1/8" in diameter on a 2x10), but they must be in the outer 1/3 of the joist span. So if the joist is 15 feet long from bearing point to bearing point, the hole would be okay if it is no farther than 5 ft from the bearing wall. *BUT* the hole must be no closer than 2" from the top or bottom edge of the joist, which does not look to be the case in some of your pics. In one pic it looks to be only 1" or so from the bottom edge of the joist, which would not pass an inspection. That penetration would be more like a bottom "notch", and notches should not be deeper than 1/6 the width of the joist (1 1/2" on a 2x10).

For an illustration of this, you could look at this pdf.

The only fix that I would suggest would be to remove the penetration, sister the joist along its entire length, then drill new holes that are within the center 1/3 of the joist. (Assuming the penetration falls within the outer 1/3 of the span, not the center 1/3 of the span.)
 
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Old 02-18-12, 07:28 PM
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If the joists are definitely sagging (based on your measurements from a tight stringline), I would NOT recommend jacking each one up, one at a time, in an effort to correct the sag, as someone has suggested. Doing that will mess up the subfloor's attachment to the adjacent joists, possibly causing the floor upstairs to buckle or at least develop some nasty bulges.

Best fix would be to remove and relocate the offending pipe, then sistering in some same-sized joists, 1 per each joist, glued and screwed in place once all joists have been raised as a unit to zero camber. If it's not possible to relocate the pipe, then possibly the best move would be to again lift all joists as a unit, then sister in 2 x 6s (glued and screwed), 1 on each side of each notched joist, full-length above the pipe, tight to the subfloor above. In effect, the result will be a single member that's actually stronger than a single 2 x 10 (new section modulus = 22.689 cu. in. vs. 2 x 10 section modulus = 21.39 cu. in.), assuming each butchered 2 x 10 is at least equivalent to a 2 x 6.

You also might want to address the pipe that's leaking (if not removing/replacing it)--lots of rot visible at one of the joist penetrations.
 
  #6  
Old 02-19-12, 07:32 AM
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Thanks for the replies I will research some of these options. To provide more details they are all 2 x 10 floor joists. 3, 9 footers connect from the mud sill to the basement stairs. 4, 10 footers connect from the mudsill to the i beam running through the center of the basement. The hole is 1' from the mud sill. This is a partially finished basement that obviously wasn't done to code. Permanent floor supports would be difficult because under 3 of the floor joists there is a walkout basement door that would be affected. House was built in 1965 in NY.
 
  #7  
Old 02-19-12, 09:33 AM
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Are you sure the dip is related to this pipe penetration? Is the dip right above it? If it isn't and the entire floor sags towards the stairwell, I would suspect a poorly supported stairwell. I have the problem in my house.
 
  #8  
Old 02-19-12, 10:47 AM
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If the joists are definitely sagging (based on your measurements from a tight stringline), I would NOT recommend jacking each one up, one at a time, in an effort to correct the sag, as someone has suggested.
That isn't what was suggested. What do you suppose the beam is for?
 
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Old 02-19-12, 11:25 AM
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Maybe it's time to brush up on your reading skills, starting with the 4th paragraph's first sentence, in Post No. 2. My version reads "one at a time."

What does yours say??
 
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Old 02-19-12, 11:26 AM
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I might be wrong but I don't think he was talking about your suggestion tldoug.
 
  #11  
Old 02-19-12, 12:03 PM
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Bridgeman was speaking of my post guys where I suggested jacking up one at a time. The floor has a dip in it as the OP reported....

Whether they are jacked up slowly one at a time or all at one time, the "dip" is going to cause the subfloor to bulge upward because of the permanent deformation of the subfloors material.. ...

Much like if you set a 80 lb bag of concrete in the middle of a 1/2 piece of CDX plywood that is supported on the ends by a sawhorse and then leave it that way for 30 days, good luck in getting that piece of plywood to lay flat. The subfloor will have to be reworked anyway if the"dip" is noteworthy. ...

If the joists have structural walls or beams being supported by them out in the middle where they are saging, the lifting methods do have to be monitored as structural damage upstairs will be done. .. jmo
 

Last edited by gregishome; 02-19-12 at 12:29 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-19-12, 04:28 PM
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re: drooplug

actually the dip is away from the stairs.
 
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