Floor bounce and tile prep...

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-26-14, 05:10 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Floor bounce and tile prep...

Hi everyone, I'm remodeling our kitchen and plan to put down 12x12 tile over ditra. My concern is that there seems to be quite a bit of bounce in the middle of the floor. Like enough I can make the fridge noticeably wobble from jumping a little 4' away.

The room is 24' by 12' with a beam half way making the joist span an even 12' on either side. Joists are 2x10s, 16" OC. The flooring I'm told is 5/8", but looking at it from an edge, it's looking more like 1/2". There is no blocking or cross bracing on the joists. There is little to no bounce right in the middle over the beam.

Given that I'll be putting down ditra under the tile, my questions are this:
- Would a good second layer on the floor eliminate the bounce?
- Even if the existing is 5/8", would 3/4" OSB on top be overkill? Would Adventech on top be overkill?
- I've read to screw it down, NOT into the joists. Is that the best or would like 2" ring shank nails be ok?
- I've read NOT to glue the second layer. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-26-14, 05:31 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 9,808
What is below this area, a basement, crawlspace, or what. Is it a finished area or can you add more supports. My 13 pound dachshunds create a noticeable bounce with the same floor as yours, with cross bracing. If I jumped in the middle of the floor I could flip the tv off of its stand. IMO, that tile will need a rather solid floor, but I'm not a pro in that area. They will be along.

Bud
 
  #3  
Old 04-26-14, 05:33 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,038
Cross blocking and bracing will quiet down the bounce. It ties multiple joists together so they act in unison. The second layer alone will not change anything about the bounce. Advantech is an excellent choice. Screw it down is correct on both layers. First into the joists, second layer miss the joists. No do not glue the second layer.

With the second layer, you can use regular 1/4" cement board. It is cheaper than ditra and will work fine in your case.
 
  #4  
Old 04-26-14, 01:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Thanks for the info.

@Bud, the area under is a crawlspace with just a dirt floor, so I do have access. Although adding a support mid-span I'm assuming would involve new footings due to the dirt.
@czizzi, I like the ditra. I think it goes down easy, plus I already bought it. I don't have enough experience to say it's better than cement board, but it's what I've used and I don't think the ditra is a worse choice.... right?

Also, just had a nice surprise as I was poking around. There's 1/4" ply glued to the existing 5/8" but only on half the floor. It was 2 rooms previously with lino tile on half (this has the 1/4") and pine 3/4" strip on the other half. So I can fill with 1/4" on the other half and then top with a 1/2" to level it all out, offsetting all the seams of course.

I doubt anything is glued to the joists, as it squeaks like you wouldn't believe. I'm one to try and do things right even if it costs a little more and takes a little more work in the short term. Does this warrant stripping it all to the joists and laying down a new solid advantech layer and going from there? Having access from the top, I could add two rows of blocking on each span as well. I could see if I can get the 1" advantech and put the ditra right on that.
 
  #5  
Old 04-27-14, 07:22 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,038
Squeak are nails either riding up and down in the nail hole as they are smooth shanked, or misfires that are riding sidesaddle to the floor joists and never got good wood. Either way, pull the offending nails and sink a screw down in its place. It will quiet the floor down.

The 1/4" has to go, it does not belong in the sandwich mix of a floor make-up for tile. I doubt it is glued, usually nailed very heavily along the perimeter, but none the less a PITA to remove sometimes.
 
  #6  
Old 04-27-14, 08:23 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 9,808
Since the dirt has been down there for awhile and the soil isn't subject to frost, you can use a 18" x 18" or 24" x 24" concrete pad. Most concrete companies sell them. This won't be holding up the house so a screw jack on each end of an added beam right across the middle of that span would eliminate any bounce and it could be adjusted over time if it settles. And it can be added later on in this process is you still have too much bounce.

Not a perfect solution, but an option.
 
  #7  
Old 04-28-14, 06:31 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
I hope to start getting the flooring up from under the fridge at least to get a good idea of what's going on this week. It's sure looking like it's glued. The house was built by the owner who was a professional amateur I'll say. And he was counting his pennies all the way.

Great idea on the 2' pads.

Really appreciate all the input! At this point, I think my plan is to pull up the subfloor down to the joists. Put in two solid rows of blocking on each span. Then lay down new 3/4" advantech glued and screwed. 1/2" underlayment ply on that screwed missing joists, offset seams, then Ditra, and then the tile. Before laying the Ditra, if there is any bounce, make up double 2x10s and put them midpsan with jacks on 2' pads as bud suggested.

I've got 2 weeks for someone to knock some sense into me if I'm off on anything.
Again, all the help is greatly appreciated!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'