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gutted kitchen, now what?


Sip's Avatar
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06-06-14, 06:48 AM   #1  
gutted kitchen, now what?

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Hi all,

I've attached an image of my kitchen floor. House is a 1909 Philly row home. Kitchen is last room in house. The house had a cantilevered section on the first and second floor. So the joists transition from running from common/shared/firewalls to perpendicular. There has been some settling of the foundation, so I will be doing some shimming or sistering where appropriate.

The joists running from common wall to common was where held in place with structural planking, soon to be completely gone. I realize i need to do some blocking of cross bracing of the joists.
Blocking will be easier for me, I think. The joists vary from 16" to 18" on center. Any opinion on Blocking vs Cross Bracing?

My plan is to insulate the joists as the kitchen sits above a garage, then use 3/4" plywood with a schuttler isolation membrane/floor heater, and then tile.
Schuttler says 3/4 is fine, but most I've read says go for 1" or more for stability. Is 3/4" too little?

Should I use the excess 2" x 3" wood I have from the demo to bridge the joists between one another? I imagine this will increase floor rigidity and reduce deflection, but am I introducing problems for expansion/contraction down the road?

Also, the joists seem to be 3"x 10" or truely 9.5" tall. Should I use fiberglass insulation in there or foam board? The spacing between the joist varies so much that I'll be cutting the fiberglass to fit.

The Perpendicular joists for the cantilevered section are topped with wood that runs parallel with the main joists. Each is nailed down with a single large nail. In an effort to level the floor, I am planning to pull the nails, and shimming this cross piece level. Is shimming those cross pieces a good/bad idea? I imagine In need to use plastic shims so they don't compress. Would I coat them in liquid nails?

I'm sure I'll have lots more Qs as I still need to frame and insulate the exterior walls of the kitchen but I have a Framing Basics book to which I'm going to consult before bothering you fine folks

 
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czizzi's Avatar
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06-06-14, 01:25 PM   #2  
Solid blocking will be easier to install than cross bracing unless you are opening up the ceiling below and have access to nailing the cross bracing from below.

I would remove the sleepers and sister 2x10 joists to the cantilever section and then turn the plywood in that area to properly span the new supports. Use the triply beam as the transition point between flooring directions.

Fiberglass insulation will be much easier to work with than rigid foam. Have the kraft faced side face the heated area not the garage.

Put down 3/4" Advantech with minimum 1/2" on top. Glue and screw the first layer. Screw only the second and miss the joists.

 
Sip's Avatar
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06-06-14, 02:27 PM   #3  
Thanks Czizzi,

I'm learning not doubting. so a few more questions.

Is it possible to overblock? What I mean is for the last normal joist span it's 18 inches. Should I put in three blocks evenly spaced to help manage deflection of the plywood between the spans? I figure I'll have plenty of wood left over to manage this.

Also, the sleepers allow me to know where to screw and where not to when I lay down the ply. Is there a reason to remove them to sister 2x10s to the smaller canti joists? I'm guessing leveling the floor will be easier that way?

Also, when/if I'm sistering those joists you recommended, am I using glue and lag bolts or is glue and nails ok?

When I do lay the ply down, do I put the ply down before framing the walls? Do I just attach the plate of the walls straight to the ply? Or do I want to lay down plates, and then put down ply? And of course, i should keep 1/8 gap in between the joints of the ply, but also where the ply meets the plates or the masonry wall behind, correct?

Thanks again!

 
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06-06-14, 03:13 PM   #4  
Removing the sleepers allow you to install 2x10 joists instead of the under sized ones you have there so that the floor will be stiffer. It will be easier to level these joists (and stronger) than shims under the 2x4.

Deflection is a function of the length of the joists more so than the distance between joists. If you beef up the floor to 2 layers, I would not worry that the spacing is off an inch or two. Blocking ties one joist to the two adjacent joists so that each helps out the other one instead of each working independently.

16d nails set alternatively top and bottom across the whole span for a nailing pattern. Slap some masking tape up on the walls and mark where your joists are located and snap caulk lines when ready to screw down the ply.

3/4" Advantech is a tongue and groove material. Do not leave gaps, fully engage the T&G. It makes for a contiguous subfloor. Gap the 1/2" 2nd layer.

 
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