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Holy Heck Batman! Rim joist + water + hornets + all kinds of code violations...


Matt Zimmerman's Avatar
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09-10-14, 09:38 PM   #1  
Holy Heck Batman! Rim joist + water + hornets + all kinds of code violations...

I am finishing my basement in my 2005 house and was going to spray foam my rim joists for insulation. As I pull out various fiber insulation I am noticing many places in the back sided portion of my house that are wet. So this weekend I'll have to rip a bunch of siding off and see what's wrong and where I can fix it.

Well, in at least three places here is what the builder did. It seems he couldn't get the pipe to fit behind the first floor wall or something so he cuts out the rim joist and just goes up. I am kind of scared to rip off the siding from the outside of the house and see what it looks like.

But here is the photo...

Yes, that is a rim joist with a huge hole in it for a pipe to run vertical!
Yes, that is moisture all around it.
Yes, that white stuff is my flipping siding.
And yes, those are in fact hornets which would explain the 50 or so flying around my house a few summers ago...


 
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09-11-14, 02:41 AM   #2  
i moved your post to Framing so it would get the proper exposure. If there was a proper weather resistant barrier (Tyvek) properly installed, you should not have moisture problems. Granted, cutting through a rim is not very kosher. What type siding do you have? Is there, in fact, a WRB installed on the house?

 
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09-11-14, 04:17 AM   #3  
By insulating the interior, the rim interior surface was allowed to fall below dew point temperature and condense moisture.

 
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09-11-14, 07:15 AM   #4  
I have vinyl siding and tyvek on the exterior. It looks like they cut away the tyvek here. At least it is all siding so I can try to fix it myself. I've never taken off siding before.

Two years ago I had to pay 30k to rip all the brick off the front of my house because the builder did not overlap the tyvek and there was a 12" gap between layers. So the water would run down the second story and into the windows on the first floor. Gallons of water coming in. This house has been a nightmare regarding water from the start...

 
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09-11-14, 12:30 PM   #5  
Siding is not difficult to remove. Unzip the bottom piece from the starter strip. Then unzip the piece above it. Lift the bottom piece off the nail heads. Do not remove the nails. It will ensure proper replacement. If you have to remove more than 3 pieces, number them and make a drawing as to where they came from. To replace the siding, hook it over the nail heads, forcing the slot over them, then zip thenpieces together.

 
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09-11-14, 07:59 PM   #6  
That is great advice! But I might have to remove the nail heads just because I might have to lift up the Tyvek and fix stuff underneath. I'll try what you said first and if need be then remove them after I've inspected what is wrong.

As for putting them back on, do I put them on in the order I took them off or reversed? (i.e., if I removed 3 sets, do I put the top on, then middle, then bottom)?

 
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09-11-14, 10:02 PM   #7  
What a mess. It's a good thing you picked the builder, and not one of us recommending him. Sounds like your guy is home free, having kept his mistakes hidden long enough to outlast his home warranty.

I've only had the luxury of having one new home built, back in 1974 in Wisconsin. The builder was a Czech, Francis Tomasavicz (Tomaz Homes), and his European work ethic was prevalent everywhere. I never found any major or minor mistakes that he or his subs made. Maybe I just didn't have enough time to look for them, as the ex got custody of the place when her (jobless) boyfriend moved in just 2 years later, and I got stuck with the payments.

Is this a great country, or what?

 
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09-13-14, 08:38 PM   #8  
Well, I bought the house from a couple who had it built. I have no proof they knew of the water problems, the builder went out of business by then, the brick mason was dead. So there was no recourse.

On the bright side, I tried my hand at removing siding today. Things are going smooth and it looks like this stuff won't take a bunch of money to fix myself.

 
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09-14-14, 03:57 AM   #9  
Good news. Keep us informed, and feel free to post pictures as you go.

 
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09-15-14, 05:22 PM   #10  
In the portion of the house that I have been working on outside it seems that the builder did not bother to wrap the joists or sill. They were entirely exposed behind the siding. I had a good bit of water coming in through a light fixture outside and also an electrical box outside. It would get behind the wrap and run down the osb into the joists. I finished correcting the wrap and also taping around the fixtures. I think I'm solid on this area and can start on another area in a few days.

I did run into something that made me pause and would like some opinions though. If you look at the attached photos you can see the vinyl flashing around the window the builder put on. I think that is fairly standard. It doesn't make sense to me though... the water runs down the siding above the window, runs into the channel, then splits and runs down the side channels. But then the water will just run down the rest of the wrap behind the siding right? It seems we are then 100% relying on the house wrap to do much of the work here. Why isn't there something that would make the water somehow run back out onto the siding?

Or maybe in the photo the siding is nailed tight enough that the water will then run horizontal when it hits the siding and out the unpictured corner channel?

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09-15-14, 06:32 PM   #11  
The window flange should have been set in OSI Quad on the OSB with the WRB cut back a couple of inches away from the flange, exposed on the sides. Screw the flange to the OSB. Then the butyl rubber tape over the flange and onto the exposed OSB and onto the adjacent WRB. Yours appears to have been installed in an "old school" method. Things change. Vinyl siding is not waterproof. Water gets by it. Enter the WRB and other sealing methods employed to keep it at bay and away from the wood.

 
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09-21-14, 05:35 PM   #12  
Started the other side of the house. Man... it's kind of nasty. Check it out!

I am going to re-apply the house wrap but I wanted to know what the proper way to seal the wrap against the two pvc vent pipes that exhaust out of the house (not the junk running vertical)? Best idea I can think of is...

1. cut the wrap tight around each vent pipe;
2. apply window flashing on both the wrap + pipe for a good seal;
3. put the siding back up
4. caulk around each pvc pipe for extra protection.

Thoughts?

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