Sill replacement/reconfigure/rebuild.......

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  #1  
Old 03-18-16, 10:33 AM
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Sill replacement/reconfigure/rebuild.......

Here is a good one for you.....Here is the porch....

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Doesn't look half bad....Until...

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The roof comes down, and it is filled with termites...

A project, I didn't want to take on "yet" as I also have the church to match this place, and we wanted to work on getting utilities to the home before we got involved in this mess...

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Oh lord!!

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Where is the foundation? Is there even one? What the?? Someone call Holmes on Homes....

After digging out rubble, trash and dirt....I find the foundation, and the crawl space entrance...

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This dates back to 2012! My assumption, is that the front of the home has been sagging for sometime and while the property was on the market...Someone called someone and told them to fix it cheap...they began by building up the porch to the level of the door sills and then filled it in with crap, pushing it over the foundation into the crawl space and finally capping it all with concrete...

Needless to say, it has rotted out the ends of the joist and the beam that supports the dividing wall..allowing termites to do what the rot couldn't...I have to fix it all! First by removing and leveling the porch stage...and then jacking up the wall, removing all the siding and rebuilding from the ground up...

Question is, how should I rebuild the sill?? I don't want to rip up the floors, as the 100+ year old pine in these two rooms still appears solid but the joist needs repair. Should I just rebuild it, like it was? Should I replace it all with laminated 2x?(having gotten a chance to measure) and attach the joist with hangers?

Just had to show this and see what others thoughts are....yeah I already have that...take a match to it thought
 
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  #2  
Old 03-18-16, 03:55 PM
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This is a trick post, isn't it?? From my experience, unless you have found a vein of gold under it, and have the mineral rights, I would never attempt to "fix" this house up. From your description and the pictures there is too much wrong with the house to make it viable. True, this is a DIY site, and far be it for us to dissuade you from doing this as a DIY project. It is too far gone and the damage is too extensive to make it practical.
 
  #3  
Old 03-21-16, 07:36 PM
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Trick post? What? and I haven't even showed you the roof of the church

Get this, they installed a brand new roof on this! They took the roof, to the rafters and added new lumber, sheathing and the whole 9 yards...but they didn't replace all the rotted wood...

I am still looking for that vein of gold, I have been hoping that like in the move "the fog" I would find a huge gold cross buried into the wall...but no such luck...

I got the reminder of the concrete broke up, and dug down to the foundation wall and of course, the foundation will also need to be redone..."thinking" I can post pone that for another few years??

This property is really historically important, and I am "working" on getting it on the registry....That would get me funding for repairs...which would be oh so nice...but in the mean time...I have to...

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Remove the vinyl siding from at least two sides of the church...

Sad, reading that scabbing floor joist, isn't recommended with out supporting the joist from underneath with piers and such...Looks like I will have to sister them or remove and replace completely...

Found enough of the original sill configuration, to see how it was originally built.....now trying to figure out a rough cost for materials...
 
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Old 03-21-16, 07:53 PM
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I'm a little lost..... are you showing us two sides of the same building ?
 
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Old 03-22-16, 03:25 AM
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Pete, he has a church building and a separate parsonage, so it is two separate projects.

Any plans to put this on a historical registry will require complete removal of all modern materials, like the vinyl siding. Then you will really see what a monster you have purchased. The vinyl was put on for a reason, and it wasn't to hide the beauty of the building. We remodeled a church's roof once in a small town, similar to the one you picture. The rafters were on 4' centers, and it consequently had a "broke back". We had to remove everything and rebuild intermediate rafters just to handle the weight of the new materials. I hope you have made a trip into the attic to see what you have.
 
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Old 03-22-16, 10:35 AM
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Yes two separate buildings as chandler said, here is a better view showing both...

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I already know its a monster! I found that out the day I walked in! Outside looked so deceiving, I "thought" my biggest project would just be the church roof and everything else would just be old...HA...What was done, was all done half ass...The electric that "was" here, was so damn scary! They were running two 30amp AC's on one breaker, with the romex wiring soldered plus they had a fridge on the same circuit. They also attempted to power the home 60amp fuse box with romex..That is just the tip!

Chandler, that is interesting to know about the rafters! I will have to look, thankfully...The ceilings are so poor, I don't need to get into the attic...

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I don't even want to know what the siding is hiding! Just from removing the fiberboard installed over the house in the 30's.....That is bad!

I "think' they installed the vinyl, to give the place a facelift...I found a project board downstairs, which said it was completed...along with the vinyl windows in 2000...Though I want to say, they must of just told all the old ladies on Sunday to come Monday with their hammers to do some work...I can't for the life of me...figure out, why they would spend the money on siding and windows...when the roof has been leaking for probably 80 years...

Regarding the sill project, I will get some more photos of that area today....Gotta give you guys, that spit your coffee at the monitor moment

I think they removed the cement blocks from the foundation and used them to build the porch...I can't really tell...until I run string to see the amount of sag, lift needed and space...Its hard to judge what is and what needs with all this crap against the home....
 

Last edited by Anthony Jessie; 03-22-16 at 10:51 AM.
  #7  
Old 03-22-16, 08:21 PM
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Well this sucks! I think I just confirmed...That I have 30ft floor joist! They run from one side of the house to the other....It looks like, all the crap under the house...was installed to aid in the sag due to this issue...I do think one good thing, is that when this is "fixed" it should fix the springy floor and sag in the center wall....but how does one sister a 30ft floor joist?

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I suppose, I can "see" if this beam that runs perpendicular is solid and reuse it to support the center of the floor or even inset a couple 2x8's sandwiched together and then use joist hangers...

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It looks like there is enough joist left, for joist hangers to grip into....This would mean that I would need to remove the older configuration of the L shape timber that the joist locked into...Replacing that with 3 2x8's sandwiched together to make a 30ft beam...

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What is up with this? There is a wall above this, I am assuming this "was" just a 2x8 joist that has seen some bad repairs?

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All n All it looks worse then what it is, when you take out of the equation all the crappy support/piers built under the house....to bandaid this problem...there isn't much left to fix....

I still need to lay on my back for about an hour under the house to figure things out...but I think the 2x8 sandwiching beam...Is the best idea for the sill and using joist hangers...I may have to just suck it up and have some joist milled for me...in order to keep from having all this extra crap in an already tight crawlspace...
 
  #8  
Old 03-24-16, 04:27 PM
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Well as I am getting my pit dug down further, I am able to asset things a bit better and soon I may actually be able to crawl into my crawl space! Though I will make sure not to wear my ruby red slippers, so I don't go all "wizard of oz"

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It really is a mess under here! Every attempt someone made, to try and fix the bounce in sag, just lead to worse damage. You can see how the 2x8's just sank into the cinder blocks and how termites just used the wood stuck in the ground as bridges up...Really horrible!

Good thing is though, I found out, that the joist are only 16ft and are supported...well sort of...

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Both sides of the joist, rest on this beam....which appears original and well hollow...I am not going to touch this "yet"...I see there is actually a foundation wall under these beams on both sides as well...which is good...

I can't seem to understand, why Lowe's doesn't list the prices of lumber on their site but the depot states a 2x8x16ft pressure treated beam is 18$...Seems like a hundred bucks could take care of the beam...

So I am still thinking, my plan of action, will be to buy two or three screw jacks, 4x4 posts, remove the siding to insert post into wall, start the jacking process via the top plate as I am hoping that has no rot/insects and then use 2x4's nailed together as kick stands from the top plate to the ground....

Then I can start the months of work, mortaring in the cement blocks, building the beam, rebuilding the wall and finally installing new joist but with hangers on a 4x8 beam...

Oh I also have to turn all that rubble and dirt into a nice raised planter bed....cheaper then a landfill/dumpster rental
 
  #9  
Old 07-12-16, 06:48 PM
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Its starting! I haven't given up, even though I keep getting more and more problems added to the bucket list!

I got the first wall supported!!! Brand new 2x8's, unfortunately I just can't get them straighter then they are at the moment, I imagine once a hanger is installed and the sill replaced it will fix it. But the wall is supported for the first time in who knows how long!

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Lets see a before!

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Yeah that looks a lot different!

I have all the wood for the sill!! And that is what is going to happen any day now, as soon as I get the crumbling facade leveled and enough to clear the new ledger and sole plate!

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The temporary supports added, who knows when to support all the rotted joist, have also been removed!! They are heavy! And working in a crawl space, on your back to remove them isn't easy! I can only imagine the person who installed these, via a hole cut into the living room floor!

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Getting somewhere!! No more frown on the front of the house! I swear I have jacked the house up 6 inches!

Remember, people...Where there is a will there is a way!
 
  #10  
Old 07-12-16, 07:32 PM
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Remember, people...Where there is a will there is a way!
What are your plans for this property after you have sunk your life's savings into it ?
There is a certain point where the end doesn't justify the means.
 
  #11  
Old 07-12-16, 08:40 PM
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Have to agree with PJ on this one.
There was so much done wrong when it was built, plus all the other rot, and damage, time for a reality check.
I would have taken one look at this before I bought it and figure out what it would cost to demo and haul away then what the lot was worth then made an offer.
 
  #12  
Old 07-13-16, 03:59 PM
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I am not trying to be a wiseguy.
I am not a contractor.
But, i do own a house that was built by drunken farmers before there were building codes or even a local government.
I knew why the porch slab was so high, just by looking at the photo.
There is a reason why they put siding on the church and a new roof over the old roof and you will not like the reasons when you find them.
Maybe the church can be saved, but the house is gone.
Your biggest problem is termites. I would get a professional in to assess that problem first. See if they can be controlled.
Next, i would talk to a realtor, home inspector and the local building inspector. The realtor and home inspector might tell you no one will ever buy it. The building inspector might still condem it after you do all of this work.
For every problem that you identify, there are 10 more that someone hid. Or electrical work done by a plumber.
I am sorry, but you are remodeling a pile of sawdust.
I also suggest you stop crawling under it. I am surprised you were able to jack it up without it falling apart.
It is not usually legal to sell buildings in this condition. I would talk to a lawyer.
Again, i am not trying to argue with you. If you disagree me, fine. Go prove me wrong.
 
  #13  
Old 07-17-16, 09:03 PM
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Sorry for the delay, this place is horrible for notifying me of follow ups.

I don't necessary think, I will sink my life savings into it but frankly I could easily sink 75k into the property and not even notice it....

Its more or less me sinking the next 20 years of my life into it. I like projects, history and antiques...This place kind of sums all those together so I see it more as hobby then work...

I've already got a lot of community support coming towards me on this and I have a lot of past members of the congregation who are very interested in the restoration efforts and garden idea. Since the church is so large, it could go anywhere from a hostel, to event venue or even converted to a home. The plans of the property are to create a community garden area, to allow the community to come over and enjoy a garden. The home/parsonage will be restored for our taste and future home....

Its a property I don't plan on leaving, yes it will/can cost a fortune and/or take the next twenty years of my life but really what is the difference between rebuilding an existing or building a custom home? Yeah a custom home can go up in two months but I don't have a wife with a bun in the oven and six months to get this wrapped up.
 
  #14  
Old 07-17-16, 09:19 PM
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More work today!

Got more of the soleplates installed and even got half the new ledger installed!

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I was having an issue, where because the joist were no longer under the wall, the wall wanted to either pop out or pop in. There was nothing for the soleplate to hit against as the floor dropped so far down and I realized I need to bring a joist or two up about three more inches to keep the wall from kicking....

After that happened, it was a matter of jacking the wall up in two sections and under two different studs, kicking a stand under the wall as I got it a but higher and finally I got 7 1/2inches to slide the 2x8 between the bottom plate and concrete blocks.

I still have to jack the 2x8 level, laminate the other 2x8's to installed 2x8, do a ton of nailing and install random blocks for temporary support of the ledger. Since the joist have about 4in's of meat still on them, I will drive some spikes into them from the ledger, to help with support until new joist can be sistered and of course beams n blocks will go under existing joist until replacements are purchased...

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Here you can see, how much the floor still needs to come up, the joist are 2x8 and that is the 2x8 ledger. This is left even after I jacked up a few random joist the 3inches to keep the wall from kicking! I had no idea the floor was so concave..

Seeing how far this wall has sank, there is no way the plaster can be saved but I was hoping it may still be attached enough to hang on....but as we were jacking, huge chunks of plaster fell off the wall....I pick them up gently, as I were picking up a dead puppy lol Knowing far well there is no reattaching sad plaster...

Regarding to Xfrank, hey not going to argue, I know its a pile of sawdust....held together with vines and spider webs....but on a wing n a prayer anything can be accomplished....

I have afew die hard neighbors around here, I am also going to prove wrong....who insist the place be demo'd to the point I am waiting to randomly see tractors lined up....but is it because it is a black church or is it because it is severely neglected?

Regards to the city, they are so enamard with this project, they look forward to the finds and progress when I come in once a month. I had a councilmen praise me to the city council....
 
  #15  
Old 08-10-16, 07:47 PM
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PITA but it is done!

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Now I just have to patch together a covering from old vinyl siding until I can get to redoing the front of the house.

Literally from the sag in the front of the home, it has twisted and warped every piece of wood and trim! I have to reframe the windows, doors and replace all the siding and trim. I hope that the other three sides are in a bit better shape..

Foundation work will take place many moons from now, at the moment this project has been but on the back burner in favor of electrical and plumbing...

I am working on the plumbing aspect now and boy what a learning experience attempting to install all new plumbing in a 100+ year old house..
 
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Old 08-10-16, 08:34 PM
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How could you be doing plumbing and electric when you have floor joists to sister and wall studs to repair ?

Usually all the framing is taken care of first.
 
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Old 08-11-16, 03:14 AM
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Hopefully you are talking about rough plumbing, and not final, since none of the interior work has been done. I would get the rough done now, since the clearance won't allow much for doing work after the floor is in. We just finished tiling an entire 1920 home with a floor to dirt clearance of about 12" max. No one will be able to modify or repair the plumbing that is under there, and I warned the client about it. Can you imagine tearing a room of tile, cbu, two layers of Advantech up just to repair a broken supply line?
 
  #18  
Old 08-15-16, 10:55 AM
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chandler is right! We are doing rough plumbing, here's the beginning of my ditches...

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With this project, we are kinda all over the place...The last two days we've been knocking down the old smoke stack running in the middle of the house...I found out that it was built on top of the floor! Then around 2003 they replace the top 5feet but built it ontop of the crumbling 120 year old brick...

Currently we are in a tent in the church on the property, so we are attempting to get a bathroom and one room ready for winter in the house as the roof on the house has been replaced.

Next phase of the structure, we'll rip up the floor in the kitchen to allow better access to the opposite side of the house, were the double 2x8's under that wall are pretty much gone and a good number of joist have rotted...

Can always follow our money pit project on facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/stlukeamechurchsalisbury/
 
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