Adding floor beam (sagging floor).

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  #1  
Old 01-17-18, 06:26 PM
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Adding floor beam (sagging floor).

Hello,
We just bought a 1935 house that needs some work.
The main issue is fixing a slightly sagging floor. The floor needs some beams (4) to be added.
Due to space limitations and a herniated disc, the only solution that we can think of, is to build-up the beams in place out of 2x6 treated lumber. There are 4 existing beams. Please see sketch and let me know what you think. (pouring concrete, or larger and heavier pads is no option)
 
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  #2  
Old 01-18-18, 08:37 AM
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Not clear what beams are current vs being added but for the posts I'd look at getting smaller adjustable steel posts vs stacking pieces of wood, eventually the wood will shrink due to moisture loss.

I've seen them as short as 3' but looks like they are as short as 12".

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...1&d=1516293421
 
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Old 01-19-18, 09:52 AM
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Name:  3beams.jpg
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Size:  47.9 KBHello Marq1,
Thank you for your reply.
Under the main house area (24'x31'), there are 3 existing beams as shown in photo. We would like to add 4 more 24' beams.
Shrinkage of wood brings another challenge for us! Do you think the shrinkage would reach a limit where it would stay put? Or, Will the wood expand with more humidity even under load?
The only reason we rather not use the adjustable steel posts, is that they require a bigger and heavier concrete pads. That will not work with a herniated disc and difficulty of maneuvering such heavy object..
 
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Old 01-19-18, 11:01 PM
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Is there a reason you can't use 8 "
Blocks with steel shims as opposed to treated lumber. Or in some cases we have used composite decking (trex )instead of wood.I agree with marq u will have some degree of shrinking or settling anytime lumber is involived .screwjacks would work great in your application.But regardless of what you use there will have to be some physical labor.good luck with whatever u choose.back problems suck.kinda comes with the years of physical labor.
 

Last edited by houseflipper; 01-20-18 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 01-20-18, 03:52 AM
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Shrink or expand aside the adjustable posts would simply be easier to install,

If stacking wood you are going to get to a point where that beam is going to need to be jacked up to insert that last board, the adjustable post will just screw up plus they will allow for adjustments over time.

Regarding footings, regardless of what method used they will need to be sufficient for the load so stack or post would be the same.

So what is the plan for footings?
 
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Old 01-20-18, 05:39 AM
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Marq1 & house flipper,

You have given me a lot to consider. I'll need to think about my limited options, and how to proceed. It looks like we'll have to hire someone to maneuver the 8" blocks or the heavier footings for the jacks.
All your points are well taken and appreciated. I'll be back to report or ask more questions.
I'll keep an eye on this thread in case there's more suggestions.

Much obliged for your input!
 
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Old 01-20-18, 06:22 AM
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If you ave to hire somebody to get the 8" pads (what I have heard called "cookies") for the posts, how are you going to install the 24' beams?

Seems to me that you have plenty of support under your joists with the 3 beams you have. Perhaps you just need to jack the existing beams up and add some steel shims to the existing posts/piers.
 
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Old 01-20-18, 06:51 AM
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Tolyn Ironhand,

The idea was to build up the beams out of 2x6 in place (as shown in the 1st photo). That would be easier to maneuver around in such limited space.
Your idea that jacking the existing 3 beams would be sufficient is of interest to us! It would make for less work by using the jack posts.

Thank you.
 
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Old 01-20-18, 11:08 AM
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Let’s see what y’all think of this!

With much appreciation of Marq1, house flipper & Tolyn Ironhand suggestions, we came up with this:

2 or more 2x12x12 concrete pavers as footing.
1 EPDM rubber to separate treated 2x12 from concrete pavers.
1 2x12x12 treated lumber to distribute down force and prevent pavers from cracking.
1 EPDM rubber to separate treated 2x12 from metal laminate.
2 or more 1/32 metal laminate to prevent jack from sinking into EPDM/treated lumber.
1 19’ to 36” post jack.
2 or more 1/32 metal laminate to prevent jack from sinking into beam.

Do y’all think the 2x12 treated lumber would be OK in this setup? Would the ‘shrinking’ be manageable and minimal?



Again! Thank you for your advice.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 05:33 AM
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I doubt that 2" thick paver will be able to take any weight. Pavers are designed for foot traffic only. I would think you would need something like this (or larger): https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4441443633.htm

Other then that, it looks good to me.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 05:51 AM
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What are your footer bocks resting on? If it's earth they might work if the ground underneath and level and the wood on top will help spread the load from the lolly column. Another option is to use 4" thick solid masonry block.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 02:16 PM
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Id go with the biggest, thickest pad your back could stand, thinner pads, even stacked will not have the same load capacity.
 
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Old 01-30-18, 06:11 AM
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Back to the drawing board!
The plan for the Steel Jacks will not work. We found that we only have about 14" between ground and beams.
I'll update when i get a chance to crawl under the house again.
 
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Old 02-02-18, 06:59 AM
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I don't have photos yet.
This is how one of the existing supports looks like. This was the only one added as a repair.
 
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Old 02-02-18, 12:33 PM
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You need proper footers. Even if you only have 14" height in your crawl space you've gotta get in there and dig down to hard, virgin soil so the footer has proper, solid earth to bear against. Simply stacking blocks or anything on top of back filled or loose soil (which is very common under most homes) is likely to settle and shift as it takes a load.
 
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Old 02-04-18, 11:55 AM
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We've decided to just add some temporary support made of 2x12 pavers and treated lumber, till we make a decision on the permanent ones.

Thank you to all for your suggestions!
 
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Old 02-11-18, 09:18 AM
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We are still working on adding some temporary supports + left under 3 of the beams. About 1/8” every 1 or 2 days.

The following is for the benefit of others that may find this thread of interest.

This one is almost identical to our situation: https://oldhousecrazy.com/2012/01/23...ing-floor-diy/


This is from an old (2011) thread on this website: “ 04-03-11, 06:55 AM joecaption For at least three years that's all we did was restore 100 plus year old houses in one small area of town. We did one and so many people came to see it and liked what they saw that we ended up just going from house to house restoring them back to what they once were when new. A few things we have found in almost every house we looked at.
The center of the house all most always is lower the the rest of the house. The floor joist were almost always run with to long a span for there width.
The morter in the piers was always failing, and there was never wide enough footings under the piers. Everyone of them had termite, fungus and or powder post bettle damage. Most had a porch that was added on with no roof over it and it had been built by some DIY with no flashing and to close to the door openings, and also tight to the siding, so the siding and old 4 X 6 beam were rotted out or old flooring was shot.
Most were set to close to the ground, because there was no central heat, plumbing or electricity so why have it up in the air. Most often since the house was so low we ended up having to cut out the floor near the middle of the house to be able to get the materials under the house to lift and fix the floors.
All of them had standing water under them.
There's just no way I can tell you every little thing about how to fix all the things your going to find, or even who to call in your area to get it fixed, but I'll try to give you a few ideas on what to look for. Most new home builders would not have a clue on how to go about fixing all the uneven floors, there used to having a perfect foundation and piers to work up from.
A real home restorer is what I'd be looking for that has done this job before. A sagging house can not be lifted and fixed in a day. If someone was to just go under the house and start lifting it thinking there just going to stick something in to try and hold it in place like a lolly coloum the walls are all going to crack and the doorways will thrown all off, and there's going to be a big hump in the middle of the room. Every aspect of the house will have to be looked over to come up with a plan as to what order things need to be done so one thing will not effect the other. You will soon see this job will become a Pandoras box of things that need to be fixed.

Examples
If the walls are all cracked that's the perfect time to remove the old plaster and see if the house was even insulated. If there is no insulation and the plasters off the wall you may as well get it all rewired to a min. of 100 amp service, 200 would be far better and only cost a few bucks more for the panel. Add a second panel on the second floor to make it far easer to run wiring, that way you do not have to run it allthe way back to the main panel on the first floor. Add more outlets, remove all the old wiring, To get it done the right way a new line will have to be done to the street by the power company.
Before insulating you need to add blocking at the top and bottoms of the walls to stop air flow and act as fire blocking.
Now the walls insulated you may as well install all new replacement windows.
If you just hire someone to come out and lift it enough to get the floors sort of level (most old houses will never be 100% level again) You have done nothing to make the home more livable, cheaper to heat and cool, and safer. You will just have an old drafty not up to code home that if some one wants to buy it will lower the price because it still needs a lot of work".
 
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