What technique do you use to apply finish?


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Old 02-15-07, 02:26 PM
J
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What technique do you use to apply finish?

Just wondering others thoughts on finish application technique.
I build alot of furniture and use mainly polyurethane, occasionally polycrylic. My Dad taught me long ago the standard method of sand up to 220, apply 3 coats with the appropriate bristle brush, sanding between each w/ 220, of course, wiping down after each sand. Through trial and error I now use the following method:
1) sand to 220
2) wipe down (w/paint thinner if using polyurethane)
3) apply 1 coat of poly using 1 rag to apply in circular motion, then a dry rag to wipe smooth (rag must be one that will not leave fibers behind, old cloth diaper, tack cloth, etc., also must have no nap or texture) - the clean rag will absorb just enough finish that it doesn't remove much but smooths it out, doesn't leave ridges like a brush
4) buff w/ paint thinner and clean rag
5) apply 2nd coat, same as 1st coat
6) sand w/ 220 or finer
7) wipe down
8) apply 3rd coat, same as first 2 coats
9) buff, aggressively w/ clean rag and paint thinner (if using polyurethane)
With this method I get a perfectly smooth finish with minimal sanding (I hate sanding) comparable to factory or cabinet shop sprayed finishes. Another huge bonus is there's no cleaning brushes, just throw away the rags (properly, they're flamable).
Any thoughts?
JC
 
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Old 02-15-07, 04:06 PM
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I'd be suprised if you could apply enough poly with a rag. I prefer a good brush or spray.
 
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Old 02-15-07, 08:30 PM
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application techniques

For all solvent based products you should use a soft china bristle brush.
I believe the biggest mistake people make is using cheap brushes, overbrushing and not putting enough product on the surface. As my cabinet maker buddy says;" What? no runs? not enough paint!". He jokes. If you work
quick and back brush properly you can acheive amazing results. So many variables affect the "flow" of your product. You need to be focused on the finish, plan your moves and be willing to abort mission for adjustments. A great finish can be acheived with patience and care.
 
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Old 02-16-07, 04:46 AM
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have you ever checked your dry film build? it sounds like you would have very little on the surface, thus very little protection.
 
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Old 02-16-07, 07:39 AM
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1) the rag applies as much product as you want, I soak the thing, the circular motion helps work the first coat into the wood, then with the "dry" rag you'd notice it's not completely dry more like dryer, I guess, so you don't remove much if any material
2) since each coat goes on amazingly smooth there's very! minimal sanding, basically all you're doing is roughing the surface for the next coat, with the brushes I, and most of the people I have worked with end up doing 3x the sanding because the bumps and ridges are that much bigger, you end up removing 1/3 the total height of the product, the way I've been doing it you don't remove any, so it actually ends up as thick or thicker
3) I agree with the good brush vs cheap brush, I've always used Purdy, w/ the appropriate bristle for water or solvent base
I realize there's going to be some resistance from "the old timers". Try it out on a couple pieces of scrap, let us know how it goes. Thanks for the input.
JC
 
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Old 02-16-07, 07:47 AM
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I am one of the 'old timers' but I don't see where a rag can apply enough material. The main reason for sanding the 1st coat of varnish/poly is that the poly raises and seals the grain. Bascially you are sanding down the raised grain which does remove a portion of the 1st coat. After that each coat should only need a light sanding both to facilitate a slicker finish and provide better adhesion. Generally the greater mills or film of paint, the greater the protection.

I prefer to keep my hands clean and dry [and detest using gloves] so I'll let the bristles of the brush do the work and keep my hands clean, controlling the brush handle
 
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Old 02-16-07, 11:06 AM
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if you know your volume solids and can measure your wet mils you can figger out your told dry film. Multiply your volume solids by the wet mils. this of course does not account for absorbtion into the wood and any that you sand off. According to the AWI you want about 3 mils dry.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 07:12 AM
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OK, 1) How do I figure the volume solids, 2) How do I measure the wet mils. To me, this is something the manufacturers just told us. If I can figure it out I'll let you guys know what it is. I'm finishing a media cabinet right now.
marksr, you'll love this, I'm using a different rag on this one, happens to be pieces of a ribbed t-shirt and I can't get as much poly down as I usually do. I should only need 1 extra coat, though.
JC
 
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Old 02-19-07, 07:40 AM
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There is a tool/guage that is used to measure the thickness [mils] of the coating. I have no idea what they cost but would guess that any pro paint store would either have one or know how/where to get one.

IMO t-shirt material makes good rags, especially for wiping off stain.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 08:45 AM
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I'm no woodworker but I have (unfortunately) poly'ed alot of southern facing wood doors. The problem with applying the finish in our area is it's so dry, and the sun so intense, the finish dries lickety split. I found a foam brush gave me a streak free finish well enough that if I didn't get to back brush fast enough, it didn't look too bad.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 09:45 AM
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I've had the same problem with doors. My Dad and I restored a historical cabin in Wyoming a couple years ago for a client and I had to work FAST! on the door. Fortunately, in my opinion, the exterior of a door doesn't have to be PERFECT. I like to put a double dose of poly on those. I wouldn't use a rag on it, just interior furniture pieces.

I'll check around for a mil gauge. Thanks

JC
 
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Old 02-19-07, 09:51 AM
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By the way logcabincook, that cabin was high up in the Windriver range of the Rocky's. Dry air, intense sun, in mid-summer, I know what you mean.
For anybody not familiar with the sun around there, you can get a nasty sunburn in 1 hour what would take 5-7 hours in eastern Nebraska. I've had worse sunburns in Wyoming than spending a day on the beach in Cali or Florida.
JC
 
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Old 02-19-07, 12:44 PM
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a good paint store should have a wet mil gauge, they should be free. a god store may have a dry film gauge, these can cost about $2000. your volume solids can be found on a data sheet (not msds) from the company.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 12:54 PM
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Thanks bclacquer, now I'll know what I'm talking about when I get there. I might have to pass on the dry film gauge. We'll all just have to wonder what that would say.
JC
 
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Old 02-20-07, 05:13 AM
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I guess I wasn't clear. The good store should have a dry film gauge that you can use. If you find a store, bring in a piece and have them test it. it takes a few mineutes. I do it all the time, we do it as a sales technique and to help out our contractors. they cost about $2000 so we do not expect all of our customers to own one. They also work when trying to figger out why something failed.
 
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Old 02-20-07, 06:08 AM
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OK, now I'm getting it. All these years just eyeballing it, didn't realize it was that easy to get your technique tested. I'll try to find someone who does it, do a small piece and bring it in.
Thanks
JC
 
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Old 02-20-07, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by logcabincook
The problem with applying the finish in our area is it's so dry, and the sun so intense, the finish dries lickety split.
This can be a problem with most any type of finish on a door with full sun. Thinning the coating is often benificial. While 2 thin coats might be more effort than 1 heavy coat it usually looks better and wears longer. I usually try to paint the doors while they are still a little cool - either in the shade or early in the day.
 
 

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