Help! I bought a secondhand table that had a sticky finish on it (wax?). So I cleaned it up with TSP, sanded it and applied a oil based poly. Immediately the finish started to bead up so I wiped it down with mineral spirits (worked fine) and I'm back to square one! Is this beading up what happens if oil is used over a water based finish? The table is Ethan Allen, not particularily old and the finish is in good shape. All I want to do is topcoat it. What do I do now?
Thanks!

 

Factory finished furniture is almost always coated with lacquer. Polyurethane (oil or waterbase) will not adhere to lacquer no matter what you do to it.

If you want to topcoat (to restore the sheen, whatever) you'll have to use lacquer.

If the piece has just dulled down a little over the years, Try Turtle Wax Polishing Compound and Scratch Remover. Apply according to the directions on the can. This will remove minor abrasion marks and give a nice even sheen to the top.

PS - the 'sticky' indicates a dirty household OR, the finish is deteriorating...If your cleaning with TSP removed the sticky and left the finish, it's probably the former.

If you absolutely have to have a poly finish - you'll have to strip the piece and start from square one.

 

Thanks George!
I'm afraid that wax isn't going to do it as I had already sanded to scuff the table up :-(

I'm a total newbie to lacquer... from reading other posts it sounds like using spray lacquer is my best bet. Do you like a particular brand and do lacquers come in water and/or oil bases like polys do? Could I use that rock hard finish from Rocklers that you recommend for heavy use or is that incompatible too? Thanks for the help!

Oh, one more thing... if I try the spray lacquer and the same thing happens will mineral spirits remove lacquer while its still wet or do I need to buy a different type of solvent?

Still learning from my mistakes.....

 

The product I mentioned (Turtle Wax Polishing compound and scratch Remover) has a fine abrasive in it. Depending on the grit of the sandpaper you used, it may still work. If you used 400 grit paper (or finer), give it a try.

While I use brush-on lacquer for some projects (not many) I use aerosol lacquer for most of the lacquer finishes. Since I left furniture refinishing as a full time occupation, I don't have space in my own shop (or the need) for a compressor driven spray rig.

I use Deft almost exclusively. The lacquer is good, comes in a variety of sheens, and the spray head gives a nice fan that allows you to mist on the finish without being overly concerned with runs and sags.

Water-borne lacquers are available commercially (especially in California), but I'm not aware of any available at the retail level.

The Rock Hard Varnish is incompatible with lacquer also - sorry about that. If you want that finish, again, you'll have to strip.

You won't have the same type of problem spraying lacquer over lacquer. There is a chance (slight) that the two lacquers may be incompatible. If this happens you won't have any choice but to strip the piece completely and start again. Here's a short course on finishes:

Lacquer and shellac are 'evaporative' finishes; they cure by the evaporation of the solvent(s) -there is NO chemical reaction. Reintroducing the solvent to a fully cured finish of either one will redissolve the finish.

Polyurethanes(water and oil based) as well as standard varnish are 'reactive' finishes. They cure through a chemical reaction. Once fully cured, the original solvent has no effect on the finish.

Applying lacquer over an existing lacquer finish will partially dissolve the existing finish, allowing the two to coalesce - bond together. No sanding is necessary between coats other than to smooth the finish. Polys and regular varnish must be sanded between coats in order to give the next coat something to hang on to. They build up in layers. The second coat does not affect the first.

If I've confused you completely, or if you have any other questions, come on back.

 

Hi George!

I'm back! Well, I have some good news and some bad news..you were right in that it was lacquer .... but I've had some additional trouble with finish incompatibility. I'm really wishing I had taken your advice and tried the turtle wax out first, live and learn I guess :-). Anyway I applied the spray lacquer and the same problem happened, fisheyes, (yes I have learned some new terminology!) My guess was that someone used a heck of a lot of silicone-based spray polish on this table. So today I stripped it all and I'm a little concerned about two things:

1. The maple was stained and the stain is now blotchy (just a little) if I restain will this even out?

2. Assuming the worst case senario and the silicone is still in the pores even after stripping, what finish do you recommend and is there anything else I can do (wash the piece down with something?) to try to prevent the fisheyes from reoccurring?

Thanks so much for your help, you've been great!

Shelly

 

Shelly:

Sorry about the delay, but my computer died and I just got it back from the shop...

Fisheye is the bane of refinishing. A thorough wash with VM&P naphtha using 0000 steel wool to scrub with usually (not always) gets rid of the problem. This is, of course, AFTER the piece has been stripped again.

The blotchiness in the stain will only be accented by the application of more stain without a helper - that helper is called wood conditioner - available from most home centers and better paint stores. Maple is one of the few hardwoods (the other being birch) where I always suggest a conditioner before staining. An alternative to the conditioner is using a gel type stain - they don't seem as susceptible to blotching, and the depth of color is easier to control as well.