Garage Door Rot

Hi Everyone,

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've got an old, thick, wood, 2 car garage door with some rot at the bottom.

I was thinking I could take the bottom panel off, rip down an inch or two on the table saw (until I reach good wood) and screw and glue a piece of pressure treated replacement wood. I was thinking of then using Bondo (automotive body filler) to hide the seam between the old wood and the replacement wood. A bit of paint, a new door seal, and the repair should be done.

Does this repair plan sound reasonable? I don't feel like replacing an otherwise good garage door.

Thanks,

- Joe

 

If it is the very bottom...possibly yes. Check the mounting of the lift cables for the door...

You will need to put a bevel on the cut part of the door (hi inside to lower outside), and a corresponding cut on the replacement piece. Use a waterproof glue (polyurethane) and screws to attach it. May also need clamps unless you screw every 6 inches. Scape/sand the foamed out glue after cure. Sanding and good cuts should pretty much eliminate any real seam...I'd never use bondo in the application..the vibrations and flexing will crack it off eventually. If the seam is really noticeable...you could prob put a small piece of trim over it...but if you do a good job of cutting, attaching and sanding..the paint will hide it.

After it cures...you'll need to attach a plywood reinforcement to the interior to stiffen it. At least 1/2" with as many plys as you can get..prob 5 but I think I've seen 7 ply 1/2". It should go from the bottom to the top of the rail and be attached with glue and screws. Since its interior you might be able to use construction adhesive...I imagine the interior is painted/primed..so regular glues wouldn't work well.

Now...if this seems like a bit of work and expense..you can prob find a new panel that will match for about $100-150 and will just need painting.

 

The new panel idea is tempting, although I'd imagine it would be tough to transport to my house given the size of the panel (it is a 2 car garage door). I assume this would be something a big box hardware store could order for me, correct?

Given the amount of scrap I have laying around, I may try to patch it like you're saying and if that fails or looks awful, I can always buy a new panel.

Thanks again for the ideas!

- Joe

 

If you use new/fresh PT wood. I'd be leery of the fit and glue. If the PT wood is dry, I don't think there would be an issue. If you can't get dry PT to use, kiln dried pine, primed and painted would be a better way to go.

 

Well...a good person at a Box might be able to help..but they are sorta limited in their training and what they can order. You might have to check several..since they carry opposite brands. Best would be to try and order from the original manufacturer..but I know that can be tough with wood doors.

You would need all the stile and rail measurements as well as the panel size.

I think your try it and see may be worthwhile...depends on how much spare time you have.

Be super careful of the cables and springs....if you haven't dealt with them before..they can hurt ya bad. Are these torsion springs?


As Mark said, wet PT will twist and bend like crazy as it dries. I forgot to mention that. If its dry, you'd need to moisten it for poly glue.

 

Good point about the fresh PT - didn't think about that.

After you mentioned the cables, I remembered that they're attached to the lower panel. Seeing as how my livelihood depends upon the use of my hands (I'm a computer programmer), this may be a job best left to someone who has more experience - unless there is a way to "lock" the spring in place while I remove the panel.

I know the torsion spring is undersized for this door - that's how I discovered the rot to begin with. I pulled the disconnect string and the door came crashing down as if there was no spring (and I know the springs aren't broken).

Anyone know any good garage door guys in the south FL area that can replace a panel and install the correctly sized torsion springs? How much do you think I should expect to pay for this kind of repair?

Thanks,

- Joe

 

Many places will try to sell you an entire new door unfortunately. So you'd just have to check around.

The springs may just need adjustment..should have a Pro check them out. You'd be surprized...they can be broken and you might not see it w/o a coil by coil inspection.

As to cost..this would be just a guess since I last did this kinda stuff a few years ago...and it was in a different area.

Parts...
New spring(s) and cables......$100-125
Panel....$125-150 if available

Labor by a garage door company.....$300-400

Brand new semi-insulated door (may need to meet stricter wind codes than existing) assuming 16 ft......prob $1500 or so..installed.

 

I just opened the door and checked the tension on the cables and they are pretty loose (I can see slack in the cable if I lift the door a little by hand). I might be able to remove the lower panel for repair myself without disturbing the springs.

One concern is the weight of the panel. The door is 16 ft wide, 1.325" thick and 21" tall which, by my calculations, is ~3 cu ft. At 30 lbs per cu ft for white pine, that is about 90 lbs. Does that number sound about right? As you can imagine, I just don't want any surprises when I unbolt the panel.

Thanks!

- Joe

 

Sounds about right to me...that would put it at about 360# for a 4 panel door.

Boy..no way cables should be that loose. You'll have to look and see if there is a way to clamp the torsion tube securely, you don't want the spring to unwind..

Actually..that might be a good thing...have a tech come out and look..check the spring for damage and such...then leave it loose. If you have a helper or 2, you could still lift the door to get the panel off. You'd have to be very careful with the weight of the door..needless to say.

It can be done...but safety is a must. And of course you'll have an inoperable door for a day or so.

 

If the bottom isn't rotted too bad, only in places, you might want to look into something like this:



Aluminum channel slides over bottom of door and the weather seal goes on the bottom. I plan on doing one of my doors with this shortly.

 

Don't get me wrong... the cables are extremely tight when the door is closed. I think whoever wound this spring last time maybe just didn't wind it tight enough. Like you said, I could use this to my advantage. With the door up and the cables loose, I could have a friend come over and help me lower the panel, do the repair, then help me lift it back into place. 90 lbs isn't too unmanageable.

After that's all done, I could hire someone to come out and re-wind or replace the spring.

Thanks!

- Joe

 

Hmmm...interesting Baldwin...could you post a link where that can be found. It's ok...we trust you...lol

 

Yes, that's very interesting!

 

If you google A1330-01-W you should find one.

 

Hmm...you'd need 2 for a double door...but way cheaper and easier than complete replacement or repair if its only a few bad spots.

Grind out the bad or use an epoxy consolidant...seal it real well to prevent water sitting in the channel..prob last for many years. And you can always recycle it or sell it when you replace the door.

Time to get a probe and start finding how bad the rot is.

 

I just removed the weather seal and did some probing... the rot is worse than I thought... My door might not be a candidate for the c-channel posted by Baldwin.







I think I may need to go back to my original idea of ripping the panel down to good wood and patching it with new wood. What do you guys thing?

I should add that the rot extends a bit further than what is visible in the pics. I didn't want to go too far with it right now.

- Joe

 

Man...I know it might cost some money....but that is a hunk of JUNK!. Unless I'm really seeing something wrong..that looks like OSB in the rail, not solid wood. OH..duh...is this a flat panel door? I forgot where you are located..they are/were probably popular there. Its prob OSB type filler with either a Masonite or thin ply overlay.

Its either a new panel..or new door. That's not a repairable thing. Look how bad the end is separating.

Personally...I'd vote new door..and install it yourself. A DIY type door can be installed in about 6 hours even doing most of it yourself.

 

It is a flat panel door. The outer skins appear to be of a different material than the core. The core appears to be solid wood (at least it flakes off like solid wood), but the skins look like some kind of plywood maybe?

I'd tend to agree with you at this point - new panel or new door. Is there anything special I should look for in a new door considering I'm in a high wind zone? Would I re-use my existing door hardware (hinges, rollers, etc) or would a new door come with all of that stuff? Are there any companies out there that make kits for the DIYer that you would recommend?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm a bit of a fish-out-of-water when it comes to garage doors

EDIT: Is a door something that a DIYer could install in a day? I live on a busy street that sees a lot of foot traffic. I have a lot of money invested in tools and I'd hate to see some of them walk off with the pedestrians

Thanks!!

- Joe

 

Absolutely..like I said..6-8 hrs and that would be working by yourself probably. If you can get a helper...and have multiple tools on hand (2 sets of ratchets, 2 sets of cordless drills..etc etc) you could prob do it in less.

Big issue is having the garage cleared out if doing a whole door. You need room for you ladders, panels, etc.

I'd have to recommend doing a whole door...from the condition of what I can see in the pics..it's really about time.

A DIY door will come with everything new and everything you need except the ceiling rail supports. You can prob use your old ones for that.

Check the pricing..you might be surprised. Whoever is selling it will be able to inform you of the bracing requirements...or at least they should be!

There may be a local place that has one in stock...but most of those are for Pro install. DIY install units make the spring winding much easier and safer.

Hey...after all this help..ya feel like shipping some freash seafood to AZ....lol. I kinda got spoiled in VA...nothing is even close to fresh here.

 

Haha seafood down here is pretty good. I lived most of my life in NJ and never really tasted good seafood until I moved here two years ago. Sushi down here is amazing too!

If you're ever in south FL, let me know and I'll take you out to lunch. Any seafood would surely spoil by the time it reaches AZ

Thanks,

- Joe

 

I had a friend-of-a-friend contractor come out today to give me a quote for a new door. He presented me with two options. Both options include new tracks, HD rollers, weather-stripping, springs, locks, disposal of old door, wind bracing per Miami-Dade code, city permit fee, etc. Neither price includes a new opener.

1. Amarr Heritage 1000 - steel outside, no insulation. $1695 installed

2. Amarr Heritage 3000 - steel inside, steel outside, with insulation between. $2095 installed

He said the 3000 door would quality for the $1500 tax credit, but I'm questioning that since I'm not sure my garage is insulated (concrete block walls).

I called my insurance agent and she said I probably wouldn't save much on my insurance since I already had a wind adjustment done.

At this point, I'm leaning towards the 1000 series door. What are your thoughts?

I have another contractor coming in tomorrow AM to give me another quote.

Thanks!

- Joe

 

Well...personally I'd prob spend the extra...or maybe find out if there is a mid range?
The 2 steel skins and insulation make a big diff in sound and stiffness. The block may not be insulated...but I'd always get an insulated door if available.

May want to check around as well...though that really doesn't seem out of line.

btw...you were planning to rip down panels and wood fillers...and now you don't wanna install your own? lol

 

Hehe you have a good point. Let's just say I have too many projects to take on another.

To name a few:
1. Getting married next month
2. Renovating my kitchen (working on tile at the moment)
3. Restoring an older McLane lawn edger I picked up for $50
4. Repairing my solar pool heater collectors
5. Did I mention I'm getting married next month?

The garage door seems like a fun project, but I just don't have the time to give it the attention it deserves.

You bring up some good points about the insulation... I'll have to mull it over a bit.

Thanks,

- Joe

 

Ok..well I guess I understand...but as the victim of too many of those....I'd install the door.....LOL

 

Just for comparsion purposes, I was quoted $1,500 for 2 8x7 Amarr Heritage 3000 doors installed. I am also getting 2 LiftMaster 1/2 HP belt drive openers for $700. Total for the whole deal is $2,200. 30% tax credit back on the doors ($1,300 x 30%=$390). Should be installed the middle of next week.

 

Wow, that's some serious cash. What kind of door is it and did you ask about a new bottom section? If the rest of the door is good I can't see throwing it in the dump because of some damage on the bottom.

Besides, you'll have a wife shortly to paint it for you.

 

Baldwin - the door I will likely go with is a Amarr Heritage 3000 series 3 layer (steel, insulation, steel) w/ hurricane bracing (I live in a high wind zone). Those numbers below also include a $100 city permit fee. I have two more contractors coming today to give me a quote so that may change.

I asked the guy about the existing door he said it will be very difficult to get a wood bottom panel to match and mine was bad enough to warrant replacement.

He explained that he would fix my existing door if I wanted him to, but I wouldn't benefit from a hurricane door or the energy tax credit.

Anyway, I'd rather put my wife to work painting the garage or the garage floor

- Joe

 

I looked at that tax thing..you were right..the garage needs to be insulated as well to qualify.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what "insulated" means. I would think a hollow concrete block wall would provide a higher R-value than bare wood framing. Since they don't specify a minimum R-value, it is a big question mark in my mind. Additionally, my garage is attached so I'm sure some of it is definitely "insulated".

I could always let the accountant decide

- Joe

 

Take a look here...
Is there a tax credit for garage doors?

Basically the outer walls must be insulated. If your garage is surrounded on 3 sides by the house..then it would be..but in most cases only the walls shared with the house are.

And surprisingly..your assumption about wood vs block is way off. I guess because block is a good conductor as opposed to wood or a dead air space. Take a look at this...http://www.stronggreen.com/docs/R-Va...0Materials.pdf

 

Had another contractor here a few minutes ago... recommended the same Amarr doors, similarly priced. Both contractors were adamant about replacing the opener at the same time as the door.

Is it really necessary to replace the opener now? My opener is 1/3 HP Sears (about 30 years old) but it works just fine. I've read a lot about the newer LiftMaster openers (both contractors wanted to install LiftMaster openers) having plastic gears and I certainly don't want to downgrade.

Thoughts?

- Joe

 

Well....depending on the price..yes...I'd prob replace it. The guys that have given quotes would be remiss if they didn't suggest replacement for that age. Does it even have sensors? btw...I think Craftsman is pretty much the same as Liftmaster...though if its really that old...maybe not.

Heres the deal though...you already have power, they can prob use the brackets....its about a 20-30 min job for a guy who does 10 a week.

I may have missed the cost for just the opener and install if it was in the prices you posted...

A very good opener and install would run about $325....

Yeah..I think Liftmaster is made by Chamberlain or vice versa. I personally like Genie screwdrives...but thats just me. I've seen many of the experts express a preference for Liftmaster.

 

The guy that was just here wanted $375 for the opener (installation included). The guy that was here yesterday said he would install it free if I went and bought one (since he is a friend of a friend).

Time to start looking at openers too I guess

- Joe

 

Gotta say it seems like the friend of a friend sounds pretty honest. You buy the opener of your choice and he'll install it free...sounds good. Really..the only diff between most of them is the rail assembly and the programming.

 

Ordered the Heritage 3000 16x7. Thanks for the advice everyone!!

- Joe

 

I think you'll be real pleased with that choice. Make sure its adjusted correctly...and test it a month or 2 later w/o the opener. Seems like it sometimes takes a while for things to settle in..and the springs might need re-adjustment.

The door should be able to be placed anywhere in the middle 1/2-2/3 of the opening and sit there w/o slamming down or rolling up.

Read the instructions carefully on maintenance of the track, rollers and hinges. It will keep it quiet and functioning well much longer.

Keeping the old opener for now?

 

Yeah, I'm going to keep the old opener for the time being. Part of me just has a tough time replacing things that work perfectly fine. The tech said it would likely burn out soon, but we'll wait and see He said he'd come back and put the new one in when it at does no charge.

I'll keep a close eye on how the door "matures" over the next couple of months and as you say, I'll keep up on the maintenance.

I have to move some shelving and large, heavy tools this weekend so the guys have room to work. It will give me time to give it a good cleaning - been way too long!

- Joe

 

Just wanted to follow up... the door is installed and looks great! Thanks for all of the recommendations!

- Joe

 

Good to hear...I think you made the right choice!