Adding more insulation to insulated garage door

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Old 01-08-15, 09:30 AM
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Adding more insulation to insulated garage door

Hi,

I recently converted one of the bays of my garage into a workshop. The doors were already insulated (the panels are made of a thin layer of rigid foam insulation) and I added weather stripping to cut down on the gaps around the top and sides. We are going to be putting something on the floor to close the gaps there, but I'm concerned that the thin insulation on the doors is just not enough to handle winters in Maine. Plus I assume that there may be some gaps in between the panels that I may need to seal up with something.

I had started looking at the door insulation kits, but they seem to assume a steel, non-insulated, door because they show adding the insulation in to the channels created by the frame. But since my door already has insulation, there are no channels.

I would like to be able to continue to use the door, but I would sacrifice some convenience for better insulation. To that end I was contemplating making panels (really boxes the size of a door panel) that I could stack on top of each other on the outside of the door. The panels/boxes would need to be fairly light and easy to setup and take down, but I'm at somewhat of a loss as to the best way to do this. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 01-08-15, 10:26 AM
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If you want to continue to use the door then insulation on the outside would only interfere with operation. If it was me I think I would go with fiberglass bat insulation right over the existing rigid and even on the hinged seams. If measured correctly the bat insulation is flexible enough that it should fold and stretch with the hinges as it's opened or closed. If you use kaft faced material you can clue it to the existing material. I think you can get both kraft faced on one side and foil faced on the other. You should not need to worry about a moisture barrier. Or maybe they make kraft faced on both sides.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 11:17 AM
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I might try a heavy insulating blanket or curtain and try to cover the entire door. Depending on how you mount it you could take it down or slide it to the side when you want to open the door.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 12:13 PM
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I would do a curtain, similar to Pilot Dane's suggestion. Having to go outside to unblock the door would be a pain and probably look unattractive. Adding weight to the door with insulation, even though it is not overly heavy, will change the weight and may require adjusting or changing door springs.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 01:24 PM
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Actually my thought about "boxes" with insulation is something that could easily be stacked/unstacked by opening the doors and doing it from the inside. But...

As far as adding insulation to the panels, I would probably still need to do something (in addition to the weather stripping that I put up) to prevent leaks around the top, sides and bottom of the door. I'm unclear as to the best way to address that if I taped on (I was thinking of double-sided tape along with double-faced insulation) some batts.

The curtain idea seems like it could be viable but I'm concerned about the (potentially) limited R-value of an insulated curtain. Does anyone know how well they insulate?

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 01-08-15, 01:45 PM
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How well a insulation blanket insulates is totally dependent on the blanket you choose. An old quilt or curtain would have low R value but would help cutting drafts and even with it's low R value would trap a layer of air between it and your door. Similar to how a thermal pane window works. Step up to a proper insulating blanket then you can get something with more R value.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 02:02 PM
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Here's a question I probably should have asked up front...How do I determine where I'm losing heat and/or letting in cold air?

My wife, who used to make curtains for a living, can certainly make a curtain with insulation (she's currently making quilts, so she has batting), but I should probably determine where I'm losing heat and/or letting in cold air so that I can maximize whatever I do. Is there a way to measure that?

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 01-08-15, 02:19 PM
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Just how air tight do you need to make this? After all it's a garage door. By virtue of the moving door along a frame, you're going to have a certain amount of air exchange (which is a good thing) at the sides, top and bottom. Your air exchange (heat loss) will be at any hinge point, or junction point, or where two pieces of material need to butt up against each other and still be separated. Also the metal frame that is common to the outside and inside surfaces. The actual panels have the greatest surface area and therefore the area that you want insulated. Beyond that your rate of return diminishes as to the expense to seal up every nook and cranny.
A heavy curtain seems the most cost effective means. You can roll it up like a shade.
 
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Old 01-08-15, 06:15 PM
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You could probably rent an IR detector/ temperature sensor and look for the hot and cold spots.

Or be old fashioned and walk around the area with a lit candle on a breezy day and see where the flame bends.
 
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Old 01-13-15, 09:42 AM
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I found the problem...I was in the "shop" today and noticed daylight coming in around the sides of the door when the wind blows.

I put weather stripping around the door but either the cold has made it too stiff to move when the door is pushed in by the wind, or the door is flexing in too far for the weather stripping to make up the difference. I'm not sure what I'm going to do from here, but a curtain is problematic because of the tracks for the garage door which are in the way and make it hard to place a curtain. If we make the curtain to fit inside the tracks it may not cover up the sides, and trying to make it fit around the door and sides will require further thought...

Rob
 
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Old 01-13-15, 09:59 AM
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Rob,

I think what your trying to do is make it air tight. The vinyl weatherstripping will not seal out all the air flow. It's only there as a general protector and aesthetic piece. How big is the gap between door and frame? Send us several pics and maybe we can better advise a solution.
 
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Old 01-14-15, 01:01 PM
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OK, so I guess I should have figured that the door would move and that if the plastic on the weather stripping is cold it would be stiff leading to gaps...So here are a few images:

The first two show the door "at rest":

Name:  GarageDoor01.jpg
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Name:  GarageDoor02.jpg
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Here's with me leaning on it to simulate the wind pushing on it:

Name:  GarageDoor03.jpg
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Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 01-14-15, 06:08 PM
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Rob,
That weather strip should not show that kind of gap with just the wind blowing on it. I have to press damn hard on mine to show even an 1/8 inch gap and only at the point I press into. As my door rides up and down the weather stripping tends to push the door against the rails.

I would say you need to remove the weather strip and relocate it so it actually presses hard against the door. On my garage it actually leaves a mark on the door as it rides up and down. As you nail it to the side press the vinyl firmly against the front of door.

Even with high winds little or no air gets through the sides of my doors. And my doors face the wind side.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 10:29 PM
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I hate to say itbut you might have to buy more vinyl stop moulding if you try to remove that it will crack depending on the nails you used and the temperature that it is outside the placement of the vinyl molding is very important to tight and the door will rub when it moves to lose and it serves no purpose
 
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Old 07-28-15, 09:59 AM
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Sorry to come back to this after so long, but...I've given up on the idea of ever getting this door weather-proofed enough to make a difference. So I will be replacing it with a wall with a door in it. More on that later...Any suggestions for good videos/PDFs on how to build an exterior wall with a door so that it's properly water and air proofed?

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 07-28-15, 05:50 PM
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First, you're going to find out if local codes allow you to remove overhead door and put in a wall. And you may need permits.

Short version. You're going to start with 2 x4 studs spaced on 16" centers. A sill plate bolted to the concrete floor or some type of footer. On the outside you're going to use plywood or MDF board. Tyvik or foam board over that then siding to match house. And of course the rough cut out for the manway door. A steel insulated door and perhaps a storm door over that. Inside you want to use bat type insulation with vapor barrier. Over that moisture resistant (green board if still available). Tape the joints and paint. I'm sure I missed a few things but that would be in the long version. Others will chime in with specific details and materials.
 
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Old 07-28-15, 10:41 PM
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Thanks. I already checked with the local code enforcement person in our town and was told that no permit would be needed to replace the door. My plan is to do this in a way that would allow me, or someone else, to remove the wall "easily" (relatively) and turn the "shop" back into a garage.

I was leaning toward 2x6 framing to give me some extra insulation, I live in Maine and this particular wall will be facing north. Plus the garage where this is going is part of an addition with a 1,300 sq. ft. apartment above the 3-car garage and it already has 2x6 exterior walls with LP Smartside lap siding on it. So my current thinking is pretty much in line with what you outlined with Tyvek on OSB then foam insulation on top of that and the siding on top of that.

On my inside wall the door, which is an exterior door with a window, sits right on the concrete. When I screw in a sill plate to replace the door, should it cover the entire length of the opening and should the door sit on that? I would assume so, but I've never built an exterior wall before.

Thanks again,

Rob
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:00 PM
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Replacing garage door with wall/entry door

Hi,

I'm turning one of the bays in my garage into a shop. Last year I put in a partition wall to separate the bay from the rest of the garage. But I ran into problems last winter trying to heat the shop due to the garage door not providing enough insulation or stopping the wind from coming in between the panels and around the top, sides, and bottom...leaks like sieve. So my thinking now is to "replace" (I'll be leaving the door there, just unhooking the opener/chain in case I want to convert it back to a garage at some point) the garage door with an exterior wall and entry door.

I've measured the opening and it's 82 1/2" tall which means that a normal size door will fit, but there won't be any room for a header. Since the wall won't be carrying any load I didn't know if that would be a problem. Is it? Technically there is a header there already because of the garage door opening, but...just wanted to check.

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:13 PM
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You should leave a break in the sill plate for the door, if the sill plate ran across that you would have a tripping hazard. In most cases you would also want to put a row of block across the opening except for where the door is and build your wall on top of that. Otherwise your siding will extend straight to the ground and be very prone to deterioration due to water impingement.
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:16 PM
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You are correct, there is a large header across the garage door opening already so you don't need an additional header above the personnel door you are putting in your new wall.
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:16 PM
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I'm confused, it sounds like you're both leaving the existing garage door and removing it....
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:17 PM
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You're right, no header needed. There won't be any load on the door frame as it is all carried by the garage door header.

Have you though about just insulating the inside of the garage door with 2-4" of rigid foam? Wouldn't give you a man door but might be good enough and would be a lot easier.
 
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Old 07-30-15, 02:37 PM
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I've merged your two threads on this since they're the same topic.
 
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Old 07-30-15, 03:33 PM
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Hi,

Thanks for merging the two threads...I wasn't sure about the protocol for such things.

As far as replacing/keeping the door...In my wildest dreams I would like to have a "real" shop in the future. But I also realize that, at some point, someone else will end up living here and, whoever that may be, or if I can build my "real" shop, I figured it would be good to have an "easy" way to convert the garage shop back into a garage bay. So the plan for now is to leave all of the runners, door, etc., in place (just lift up the door and disconnect it from the opener). That way "all" someone would have to do is remove the wall, patch some holes in the trim and concrete (I assume I have to attach the sill to the concrete floor with bolts of some sort), reattach the door to the opener, and they're good to go...

From an aesthetic point of view, would it look better if the door is centered in the space? Or off to one side? I'm figuring off to one side would require less cutting of the siding.

And I have thought about simply insulating the door, but it is very handy to be able to have a way to the outside from the shop. An entry door would allow me to go from the shop to the outside for things like taking the trash out, bringing wood and supplies in, etc. So simply adding rigid foam isn't really a solution. Plus with a wall I can have more wall space for tool storage.

I also realized that a "break in the sill" would be needed for the door because I only have 82 1/2" and the rough opening size of a standard door is 82"...so the door will have to sit on the concrete. The king and jack studs on either side of the door will be essentially identical. The concrete is sloped toward the outside, but I assume I will have to add some sort of silicon or something under the door. Is that correct?

Thanks for the help,

Rob
 
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Old 07-30-15, 09:53 PM
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Hi,

As far as the aesthetics...never mind. I wasn't thinking. The garage has an apartment above it, and on that particular side there are two windows equidistant above the garage door which is centered on the wall. The door will need to go in the middle or the symmetry will be totally messed up...duh! :-)

Thanks for the help,

Rob
 
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Old 09-14-15, 10:43 AM
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Hi,

Coming back to this after a busy summer...So, I'm getting ready to put the wall in place of the garage door, but I have a some questions:

The garage door opening is 9' wide. If the entry door in the new wall is going to be 36" wide and if I allow 1/2" on either side so that I can level the door, that means the sides are 35 1/2 inches each.

Assuming I'm placing studs on 16" centers: Since the center of the second stud would be at 32" but I have both king and jack/trimmer studs for the door opening, that means that they will end at 32 1/2" from the outside of the wall. So is it advisable, in order to get something close to 16" center studs, to have the door openings set up with (going from the inside of the door frame out): jack stud, king stud, "regular" stud? i.e. three studs on either side of the door.

Or would it be better to use 24" centers which will save me one stud per side? That would mean a normal space between the outer wall and the first stud and a much narrower space from that to the door opening.

Also is it better to bolt the pressure treated bottom plate to the concrete or would it work to use construction adhesive? Again, part of the "thinking" (which may be just plane crazy) here is that I may want to remove this wall at some point and turn the shop back into a normal garage bay.

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 11-18-15, 11:33 PM
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Well, i finally finished replacing my garage door with a wall. The neighbors are already complaining that I should have painted it a different color, but, hey, I'm a guy, what do I know about colors? :-)

Anyway, I made a lot of mistakes that won't really be visible to anyone, and as long as the wall keeps the wind and weather out and makes it possible for me to keep my shop warmer this winter, I guess it's all good.

Here's the finished product:

Name:  FinishedWall.jpg
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Old 11-19-15, 04:48 AM
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Looks good, but yea paint it to match the rest of the house.
 
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Old 11-19-15, 08:14 PM
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I can agree with the neighbors, it definitely needs to be painted to match the rest of the house.
 
 

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