Problem with tomatoes

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  #1  
Old 06-27-02, 06:52 AM
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Problem with tomatoes

This year I've decided to plant tomatoes in my backyard. I've planted each tomato plant in a 3 litre (approx) pot. I successfully managed to bring the plants up to a mature state in fact some of them already have tomatoes although still green. They get approx 4 to 5 hours a day of direct sunlight and I regularly fertilize them and provide them with water every 2/3 days (currently the temperature in our country exceeds the 34 degrees). Recently I noticed that the leaves are getting yellow. Their health seems to deteriorate. I tried increasing a bit the fertilizer but no success. Do you think I am given little fertilizer? Any ideas?
 
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  #2  
Old 06-27-02, 07:57 AM
Gami
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Hi Robert,

I talked about watering and Daconil in the other tomato post.

Each tomato plant should be in at least a pot the size of a 5-gallon bucket and larger if you can.

You may be fertilizing too much. Are you using a tomato fertilizer? Some fertilizers have too much nitrogen for tomatoes. I recall a post of Byron's where he stated that commercial growers only fertilize their tomatoes 2ce a season.

Gami
 
  #3  
Old 06-27-02, 12:21 PM
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Robert,
If it is just the bottom leaves that are turning yellow and the balance of the plant is still lush, then that is about normal. I snap off the lower two or three useless branches anyway.
Now, if the entire plant is yellowing - that's another problem.
I am doing a test on cukes this year. I planted two plants in a large pot of commercial composted cow manure(.5-.5-.5). You would think they would be flourishing, but they are in very poor shape, all the leaf edges are yellow with half the lower leaves dead. My other few plants yielded two large burpless cukes last night. So, over fertilizing can be a problem. I usually just throw some 10-10-10 around the plants about twice during the grow period.

fred
 
  #4  
Old 06-30-02, 02:17 PM
esorami
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tomatoes

my tomatoes turned yellow and i discovered whiteflies all over them. i had summer squash planted near the tomatoes and they drew the whiteflies. whiteflies are drawn to the large yellow blossoms of the squash.
 
  #5  
Old 06-30-02, 08:05 PM
Gami
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Hi Esorami,

A fix for white flies. Mix 1 TBS. gentle, nondetergent, nonbacterial soap (Ivory) with 1 gallon of water. Spray it on white flies. Aren't they everywhere? I never used to have them. I don't know where they came from.

It works! Honest.

Gami
 
  #6  
Old 06-30-02, 10:03 PM
esorami
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thanks

yes, the whiteflies are everywhere. i will try the ivory trick and maybe they will leave. guess i can use the hose end sprayer for this. thanks so much. now i am afraid to plant anything else because of the whiteflies.
 
  #7  
Old 07-01-02, 06:19 AM
Gami
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Hi Esorami,

I don't know about using a hose end spray. I've never tried it. Has anybody? Seems to me like you might have some bubbling. If it works for you, please let us know.

If you have $60 lying around that you don't know what to do with, and a strong back, there are backpack sprayers on the market. We first saw it on a garden show. My husband and I both looked at each other with our mouths open. You know how you always have to pump those other sprayers? What a pain! With the backpack sprayer, there's a handle on the side that you just pump as needed. Real easy. Although, with 3 gallons of liquid, it's pretty heavy. I doubt that I would ever try to use it unless I only fill it part way. They are available on the Net, but we found a Hudson brand at Orschlen's.

It's in this website for $70. I'm pretty sure we just paid $60. It also comes in a 4-gallon size.

http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page2.html

Gami
 
  #8  
Old 07-01-02, 07:24 AM
esorami
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sprayers

i don't have that good of a back to carry something else on it, hehe, but i spent a total of $6 on the hose end sprayer. i add 1/4 cup dish soap and attach the water hose, then spray away. btw...i sprayed the tomatoes yesty and haven't seen a whitefly since! i will do it a couple of times a week until i am sure they are free of the flies. thanks for replying.
 
  #9  
Old 07-01-02, 08:11 AM
Gami
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You're welcome. If you're going to spray often, it might be a good idea to hose the plants off after spraying. You probably noticed it did the white flies in immediately, so you could hose the plants off before the soap dries. I don't usually do that, but then I don't spray that often. Maybe it's harmless, but it seems like that much soap on the plants wouldn't be good???

Thanks for the tip on using the hose. That IS a lot easier.

I haven't notice them in the tomatoes, but they sure like lillies.

Gami
 
  #10  
Old 07-01-02, 08:47 AM
esorami
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tomatoes

yes, after today i will just wash them with water until i see anymore flies. the big yellow squash blooms are the big attraction for the whiteflies, and of course the toms are growing close to the squash. i pulled up the squash, they were all leaves and stalks. the squash were very tiny and they would shrivle up before the blossom dropped. something is out of sinc and i will have to pay attention to feeding them differently.
 
  #11  
Old 07-01-02, 09:16 AM
Gami
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My first two zuchinnis looked great for awhile, but then the ends near the blossom turned yellow and soft. I pulled them off and now the rest are growing normally. I fertilized this weekend with a tomato fertilizer which is very low in nitrogen. I usually don't fertilize them as they always did very well on their own. We'll see how it works.

I just thought of something. Maybe the reason I don't have white flies in my veggie garden is because I have tiger lillies growing at the end of the garden--very near the tomatoes and zucchini. There are a LOT of white flies in those lillies. The only reason I planted them there was because the garden slopes and the soil was washing out on the grass during heavy rains. The lillies helped, but now some of the soil washes out on one side, so I'll have to plant some on one side too.

Anyway, maybe lillies near your garden might be a good thing.

Gami
 
  #12  
Old 07-01-02, 10:54 AM
esorami
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lillies

don't the wf ruin your lillies? where i am now, in the desert, lillies won't grow. too hot here. maybe in the winter they would. i live in the mountains and i have lots of lillies, but we moved here to take care of my mom for 2 years. i miss my garden up there but my mom is more important now. i can always replant. i love lilies.
be careful overfeeding the squash, it will invite insects if overdone. my brother is an entemologist doing research with Bayer and he just now told me over the phone that they use a product called 'affirm' (sold commercially) for whiteflies. mix w/water and pour it under the plants. one application is all. works systemically. he swears by it. he says he will get it for me asap. let's see if he really does. LOL
 
  #13  
Old 07-03-02, 08:17 AM
Gami
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Hi Esorami,

I know white flies are supposed to cause damage to plants. Even though we have a lot in ALL the lilies, I've never really seen any damage from them. I don't really understand why. Last year I sprayed every once in awhile with the soap spray, but haven't this year yet.

Thanks for the tip on "affirm". I'll definitely look for it. I hope he sent you some by now.

After I fertilized, I also watered the next day, so maybe I diluted the fert a little. So far, the zucchini looks really good, and I'll be picking my first few today. I've been keeping an eye on them for the squash vine borer.

Gami
 
  #14  
Old 07-14-02, 06:41 PM
ByronB
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Get a Chapin Sprayer about $16, it will last a lifetime.

You need to be able to spray the underside of the leaves where they are hinding.

Reduce nitrogen
 
  #15  
Old 07-14-02, 08:14 PM
gardenmaiden
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Problem with tomatoes

I just wanted to ask a question about my tomato problem..
I am finding like the others that I am having some issues with white flies and the leaves yellowing around the edges but now the small green tomatoes that are forming are rotting at the tips.. they are all turning brown.. any advise on what might be causing this would be greatly appreciated.
I have them growing in black 5 gallon plastic containers.
 
  #16  
Old 07-14-02, 08:27 PM
ByronB
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Whtieflies spray with Neem or tobacco tea.

Spots on fruit, Blossom End rot.

In a pot, could be lack of calcium, None in the potting soil or fertilizer.

Quick fix, a couple tums with calcium.
 
  #17  
Old 07-14-02, 08:43 PM
esorami
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tomatoes

sounds like whiteflies are ruining your tomatoes like mine. i have been told several times to spray with blasts of water daily to reduce the egg population. also to spray with pyretherin (sp) and a wax mixture. someone said they are ruining their meyer lemon tree as well. they haven't bothered our meyer lemon yet, but i am not holding my breath. it is a mature tree, and that may be a factor. i will relay any solution that i find and maybe u will do likewise.
 
  #18  
Old 07-14-02, 08:53 PM
esorami
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who sells NEEM?

i have heard that about the Neem, and i hope i can find it locally.
thanks.
 
  #19  
Old 07-15-02, 08:02 AM
northgardengal
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Regarding Blossom-end Rot in Tomatoes

Everyday I check my vegetables. weed and all that stuff and somehow I didn't notice until yesterday that several of my tomatoes have suffered from blossom end rot! I plucked them off so the plants will put their energy into the remaining healthier fruits.

I've read that this condition is a result of inconsistent moisture in the soil. With the lack of rain fall, I have watered very heavily them almost every day. I just added a side dressing of bone meal 3 days before my horrifying discovery. I will plan on watering them EVERYDAY from now on.

Am I on the right track? Will the bone meal provide enough calcium?


Liz
 
  #20  
Old 07-15-02, 08:29 AM
ByronB
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Other things that can also cause BER.

uneven watering.
Excessive nitrogen
Excessive epsom (stupid Martha and 2 cups per plant/mo)
Soil pH
Excessive phosphourous.
Hi temps: plants shut down fruit devlopment for survival

Transpiration.


Bone meal is a source of calcium, Ify as to plant availabilty time.
Calcium takes 1 to 3 months to disovle to the point plants can use it.

I recommend tums because the calcium would be available sooner.
 
  #21  
Old 07-15-02, 08:56 AM
northgardengal
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Hi Byron,

Wow - you didn't waste any time with your response.

I can imagine just about everything you stated is going on with my tomatoes - the incredible heat wave we've had (and about to endure again, I think), the lack of rainfall, and my total inexperiece with veg. gardening over all.

I will try the Tums as you suggested. Re: Epsom Salts -- were you saying to use 2 cups per plant per month? or is that amount excessive? I have not used any yet.

Big thanks for your help with this!

Liz
 
  #22  
Old 07-15-02, 09:15 AM
ByronB
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At the moment I am waiting for a phone call.

In pots 2 tbsps of epsom per month is plenty

3L pots are too small, 5 to10 gal pots are better.

An indeterminte tomato will grow a root system 6ft dia and 3 ft deep.

Byron
 
  #23  
Old 07-18-02, 06:39 AM
gardenmaiden
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thanks for the help with my tomatoes

Byron, Thanks for all the suggestions.. I took out my mortar and pestle and ground up some tums... and added it to the watering can and watered about 10 tums amoungst 8 plants. I hoping that will work if I am dealing with a calcium deficientcy. We recently had a very bad heat spell so I think I might be dealing with several factors.. I think due to fear of keeping things too wet I have allowed the plants to probably dry out more than I should have and so watering my have also been a factor. Do you recommend watering in the morning vs evening or viceversa?

I also added about 2 tsp of epsom salt to each plant and scratched it in before I watered in the calcium tablets.
I pulled off all the fruit that had the BER and am hoping the rest will make it ok.
The only other thing I can think of is that when I planted the plants I added in some slow release 10-10-10 fertilizer I got from the grain store.. that went into the soil before I transplanted the tomatoes from the little six pack. I also use miracle grow about once a week.. do you think I could have overdone something there with the fertilizer? Usually I dont have these kinds of problems but this is the first time I have been restricted to growing my garden in containers because we may have to dig up the yard for a septic system. It would kill me if I did all that work to have a bulldozer come in and ruin it.. at least this way its semi-portable and I can move the plants somewhere else if I am forced to. If you can think of anything else I should know it is appreciated and thank you for all your help so far.
 
  #24  
Old 07-18-02, 07:40 AM
ByronB
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gardenmaiden,

Looks like your #1 problem is overfertilizing.
Commerical growers feed 2X during the whole gowing season.
1st time, about 2 weeks before transplant, and then about 1st blossom set.

Excessive fertilizer can raise havoc.

Salt burn,
Excessive nitrogen, Phosphorous and magnesium block the uptake of calcium.

Your one feeding of 10-10-10 was enough

I'll see if I can find a picture of excessive fertilizer.
 
  #25  
Old 07-18-02, 10:27 AM
ByronB
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Here is a sample of excessive fertiliser

http://www.serveralt.com/tomato/died.jpg

Too much 18-18-21
 
  #26  
Old 07-18-02, 10:41 AM
esorami
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tomatoes

the whiteflies ruined my tomatoes so i pulled them all up and destroyed them. i want to plant more this week but this time by seed so i won't bring home any whitefly infested plants. do i need to treat the soil for whiteflies before planting tomatoes again? the neighbors don't have problems with wf's like i do.
 
  #27  
Old 07-18-02, 11:55 AM
ByronB
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Sounds like a major infestation.

A little background.

Whiteflies reproduce at the rate of 200 per female every 2 weeks
Whiteflies eat almost every type of vegetation.
Whiteflies can fly 120ft on a windless day.
Whiteflies love rapid growth caused by feeding plants high nitrogen fertlizers.
Whiteflies are in your garden from the time frost is out of the ground until it freezes up again.
Understand the best you can do is to keep populations low enough to minimize plant damage.

The fight is on.

Tools needed a good pesticide sprayer that will spray the underside of the leaves.
A 20 gal hose end sprayer.
start with 2 or 3 bottles of baby shampoo


For your plants
Mix 2 tbsp of baby shampoo in a gal of water.
Apply to all of your plants, Concentrate on the underside of the leaves where they lay eggs and eat.
Plants include weeds.

In a 20 gal hose end sprayer jar, add 2 cups of shampoo fill balance of jar with water.
Apply this to about 200 sq ft of your lawn.

Best to apply in the evening just before a rain.
No rain in sight, wait about 20 min and rinse the plants off.

Repeat every other day for a week,
After that use every 2 weeks.

After a week, go get youir new plants, take a 1 pint sprayer jar with you. Before you put the plants in your car spray the plants.

Throw away the Mirical Gro
 
  #28  
Old 07-18-02, 12:33 PM
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Wink Another Hot choice

White flies are a huge pest that bring with them, many other problems for your plants. Take a look at http:www.hotpepperwax.com I have used this product with great sucess on white flies and aphids for 7 years now.

It can be used right up to the day of harvest, & stays put by a plant safe wax. that you can wash off with luke warm water.

I have tried every soap I could think of with only marginal results & I see this year Safers as in Safers soap has a Hot pepper wax out also.

You can order online or buy it localy, I see it everywhere now.

Good luck & don't forget the Copper sulfate, sprayed every week to prevent the blights.

Marturo
 
  #29  
Old 07-18-02, 02:53 PM
ByronB
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I would reread that copper label..

Most are 3 or 4 times per season

Reason Copper can be absorbed by veggie plants.
Excess can cause metal poisoning in humanns

Have used Bordeaux mixture an Copper fungicde 4E
 
  #30  
Old 07-18-02, 04:19 PM
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Copper Sulfate

Hi ByronB

http://www.southernag.com/copliq.pdf Please Read: I belive you will see many weekly applications up untill harvest listed.

This is the only product someone looking for an alternative to the very toxic Chemical Fungisides, has to protect their Tomatos in a blight Zone.

Copper sulfate can be applied before every rain in a blight zone, like here in western NC. A lot, I thought so too, however it is allowed by most Organic certifing agencies, & reccomeneded by the County Agent just to maybe get the first 3 sets to surive to ripen on the vine.

The plants fruit, will not absorb toxic levels of copper for humans ,but the soil will need a rest. So never plant any crop that has been grown in a copper spray area that needs copper treatments next season. This is for a three year period, just plant something else.

There are different mixes for control vs protection, always use the lowest dose for protection. Then only before you expect rain as this is how the blight is spread. A good sticker like NU-Film 17 made from Pinol mixed with the copper will help keep the copper on the surface of the plant. Also you can spray somewhat less but the groing plant, will need to be kept covered as it grows.

Why do I use Copper Sufate? Read what the Chemical Fungisides will do to the soil & to our bodies as well & you will see why I chose Copper. Also because I am an Earth Friendly Farmer, that more than anything I believe. Without protection we cannot grow Tomatos at all, to make matters worse, there still are no totaly blight resistant plants yet.

I'm not real sure of how many states are infested with this Curse of 2 blights. However here in the mountains of NC we have an AG experimental Center, doing a full time breeding programs with the Mountain var of tomato plants, that are getting near to a resistance to the 2 blights.

Call your County Agent, most are very nice and will gladly help the gardener. Ask if your area is suseptable to any Tomato blights & how they are spread. One starts at the bottom with yellow leaves & goes up leaving a defolated plant with perfect Tomatoes that sun scald & rot. The 2nd blight hits and the leaves turn black and wilt then the stems rot & the plant crumples. No fun

Marturo
 

Last edited by marturo; 07-18-02 at 05:26 PM.
  #31  
Old 07-18-02, 05:56 PM
ByronB
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I am most OG and have been for many years.

I know a few folks in NC.

Do you know this guy?
http://hometown.aol.com/clehoullie/m...age/index.html

One of the top in the Heirlooms tomato experts in the US.

Yep I have had a few chats with Dr Randy Gardener, Mountain Tomatoes

Also in my PAB, and have chated with is
Dr OW Barnet, ret Dir Plant pathology.
Dr Mary Peet soils and research with a phytoton.
Dr Kenneth Sorensen entomology.
Dr Paul Shoemaker, Prof and ext advisor
Dr Tom Melton Ext Advisor and Pathotogist for Phillip Morris


My favorite advisor has a Masters in Plant Science and was a student under Dr Randy Gardener and Dr Paul Shoemaker.

Also know ext advisors in 12 other states.

I've been gardening for 53 years, Made many mistakes, Learned from most of them.

BTW Dr Gardeners disease resistance allows plants to hold on for an extra week.

Have yet to meet a home gardener that likes the texture and taste of Randy Gardeners tomatoes.

Byron

Moderator [email protected]
675 tomato growers
with Andy Davis UK Plant Breeder.
Gary Ibsen
Tom Wagner developer, green Zebra and Green Grape
Minnie Zacorius(sp) Developer Big Zac, 2nd largest tomato 6.6 lbs
 
  #32  
Old 07-18-02, 07:05 PM
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Smile A small World

Byron said:
Have yet to meet a home gardener that likes the texture and taste of Randy Gardeners tomatoes.

You got that right brother Yes I have had some very interesting and enlightning conversaions, with Dr Jenean Davis & Paul Shoemaker etc, out at the station.

Jeneane put some of our brandywines down in front of Randy, & told him , now if you could only get your Tomatos to taste as good as the ones that the Lucky Horseshoe Farm grows. UGH

I get the Idea Randys not too crazy about us, and our Heirlooms LOL. I just can't stand a Tomato without a great taste though.

No I can't say I know Craig & Sharon LeHouller but now I have their link it won't be long now, Thanks

We do have a new Tomato seed house here in hendersonville it is run by Chip Hope (Teacher Hort, BlueRidge C.C.) and Co-Owner. I will get the link for you as soon as I can. They sell Heirloom Tomato seed & plants, & are growing fast.

Our customers are spoiled, they would not want anything but an heirloom Tomato. People are getting smarter about Tomatos & are demanding a Tomato with great taste.

Byron said:
BTW Dr Gardeners disease resistance allows plants to hold on for an extra week. The whole Tri County area found that out last wet cool growing season. The killout was awful.

I know, and therefore we must use Copper Sulfate in order to bring in any kind of crop. I must admit and I may be early in this. I have been taking the seed from the plants that last longest in the blight, only, for 10 years now.

We can see a longer time frame now than before, we took only seed from the longest blight surviviors. Some years as much as a month before defoliation & sun scald. That's by other peoples gardens with blight kill as a time guide.

A few small farmers are using plastic tunnels with good sucess. However we have some real wind storms here in the mountains & you must have a very safe harbor for that.

We grow & offer for sale 10 varieties a year here & grow 10 plants of each kind in pots at another cattle farm well away from each other for our next seasons seed.

You got 23 years on me if you start your count from our first 12 acre Farm that we grew Organic back in 1972. As far back as I can remember My Father even in Tropical Countries, would not use Pesticide. He was CIC in the ARMY and picked up the lingo no mater where we were. He would ask the local Farmers what to use & they would show him the plants & how to prepare them for bug control.

Quite a growing adventure in more ways than one, & I still try to grow and teach our Customers about new food plants from around the World. Hendersonville is home to a lot of Retires from overseas so I feel right at home here. I am geting more Ideas from them every season.

Small World isn't it

Marturo @ http//:www.luckyhorseshoefarm.com

Tomatomania sounds like an interesting forum. Is it open membership?
 
  #33  
Old 07-18-02, 07:22 PM
ByronB
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Interesting..

I recieved some seeds from a gal now living in SC, That grew up
in Hendersonville

The seeds were given to her great aunt by an "Old German"
who arrived shortly after WWI

The plant produces only 3 fruits per plant,

9", 8.5" and 8.25" dia

Dr Rick, Rick Institute, UC Davis and Curator USDA GRIN Tomatoes had never seen a plant like this.


Also, There is a teacher at a local VoTech School that is supposed to be the Heirloom expert in that area.

I lost his name, might recognise it if seen again..
 
  #34  
Old 07-18-02, 07:50 PM
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Smile Chip Hope I Hope is who you speak of.

He could be Chip Hope, & here is his web site. He worked out at Blue Ridge Commonity College. A story of how he got started is on his site.


http://www.appalachianseeds.com/

This is one reason I love living here. There are seeds that have been handed down thorugh many generations. Fruit trees, brambles & bushes from so long ago there are very few records.

We have seeds that have been past down for over 200 years on the farm my wife grew up on in western NY State.

Now that we have a large section of our community being Hispanic, I am getting Heirloom seeds form South America as well I do so love Hot peppers, good for the heart you know.

That is an interesting Tomato you describe. Determinate?
Is the flesh dry or wet and seedy? Do you have a Pic to post?

I have been working on some Russian friends to get me some seeds for some Produce, it's still a little hairy getting things out of there, so well see.
 
  #35  
Old 07-19-02, 10:29 AM
ByronB
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Thanks for Chips link,

It was sent to me be Dr CM Rick, I lost it.

A friends description of a visit to Chips place

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Flatrock/Lake Lure is a WONDERFUL place. Didnt have ATM machines back in 95'.
Also near where they filmed "The Last of the Mochicans".

Visit "Crabby Bill's" for lunch.

Randy took me on some backrounds near there and I met THE most unique tomato
grower. Wore highwater pants, 2 different colored socks with white dress
shoes and a white belt to work in the field. Had some guy there from Florida
that looked like Porky from "Porky's". even had the hog hood ornament on he
oversized 1 ton, dualies Dodge. He was buying NC tomatoes and taking them
back to Florida (thats odd)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Byron
 
  #36  
Old 07-19-02, 01:13 PM
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Wink A NC Tomato.

Byron B said:
He was buying NC tomatoes and taking them
back to Florida (thats odd)

I was talking with an old local Farmer a while back, & was told this story.

Back before this area we call the Southern Mountains became a Tourist/ Retirement Mecca. This area of NC was a hot bed for Fruit & Produce growing. Large flat rich black areas of land now under asphalt

It's sad to see that most of the avaiable Farm land sits under flood plain areas. Much of our food production has been given over to gated Communities.

China has all but put our remaining Apple Growers out of business now. On the bright side there are every year small speciality Farms like ours. This gives the local people a source of high quality produce not available in the super Mkts.

So why would a man from FLA buy and bring back Tomatoes from NC? Because they taste sooo good. I would guess

Marturo
 
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