Need Help with Wall Heater Control Dial

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Old 09-27-20, 02:07 AM
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Question Need Help with Wall Heater Control Dial

I need some help on the dial that controls the level of heat from low to high and anything in between on my wall heater. The wall heater works fine but over time the dial which controls the level has become more and more difficult to turn to the point where we now have to use a pair of pliers to turn the dial.

Can someone provided some insight on what is causing the dial to no longer turn easily? Is there a way the dial can be restored back the way it was where it moved easily? Maybe some kind of lubricant?

Williams makes the wall heater for Sears but the part is no longer available. Williams is still making heaters for Sears, Home Depot just they have changed the model.

A plumbing and heating company said since there isnít a replacement part to take out the entire wall heater and replace it with a complete new one.

It looks like the dial is connected to a variable resistor or rheostat or a potentiometer or maybe some kind of thermocouple. Is there a way to properly replace the dial with another rheostat or potentiometer or variable resistor or thermocouple? How would I know which one is the correct one?

The estimate for replacement of the heater costs over $4000. A rheostat costs like $15 - $50.

Since the heater works fine, but just the dial is frozen in place so the the level of heat can't be changed easily, it seems to be a big waste to replace the entire heating system due to a dial that at best would be $50

Can the dial be replaced or do I have to replace the entire wall heater?


Here's the wall heater

This is where the control dial goes:

Here's the dial. The knob goes on the shank that you can see sticking up to the left. It got so hard to turn the knob, the knob was taken off and a pair of pliers was used on the shank to turn it

Here is a close up of what the dial is connected to that controls the amount of heat from the wall heater.

Description of the wall heater

Iíve included some photos to help make what I am asking clear
 
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  #2  
Old 09-27-20, 09:43 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

The pictures make it somewhat clear. What is the model number ?

That is not a rheostat or variable potentiometer.
Looks pretty well mangled. Don't think it can be rebuilt.

That is an adjustable sensor bulb that probably connects directly to the gas valve. If that is the control I think it is.... you could be looking at several hundred dollars for the gas valve and adjustable sensor..... if still available.
 
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Old 09-27-20, 10:08 PM
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Ok, thanks for identifying what that is. Do you know why it has become difficult to turn ? is there something we can lubricate so it can turn easily again?

I have Included some more pictures to see if they can help

front side

back side

attached to below

 
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Old 09-27-20, 10:25 PM
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I don't know why the knob got hard to turn. It could be internally bound.
Have you tried a drop or two of oil on the shaft ?

That style of gas valve and remote capillary thermostat is pretty rare. The link below would be the closest replacement valve available. For that price.... it would be more cost effective to replace the heater.

Replacement gas valve
 
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Old 09-28-20, 12:21 AM
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I was told to replace the unit with a hydraulic snap action gas valve with integrated controls: Part # Robert Shaw 710-205. I've attached a picture of it.

Are you familiar with that?

Cost is about $114 - available on Amazon. How difficult is it to install it ? Can a normal person install it or is it too complicated; does it take special expertise, tools, etc?

The repair person wanted $650 to install it. Is that a reasonable amount ?

Also while the current setup has the controls for the amount of heat to be on the outside panel, this looks like I would have to go underneath to change the level of heat on the green dial.

Thank you for all your help !

Robert Shaw 710-205
 
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Old 09-28-20, 08:08 PM
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The valve I linked to has two capillary tubes. It remotes the thermostat like yours is now.

That RobertShaw looks like a good choice. It's a several hour job. You need a manometer to measure the gas pressures. Both the main burner and pilot flames need to be set.

That's the one downfall..... the thermostat location.
That price is a tad high but not out of the ballpark.
 
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Old 09-29-20, 12:28 AM
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Thank you very much, PJmax - can you write out the link - I tried it but I got an error and it wouldn't connect. If writing out the link is not allowed in the forum discussion, can you please write out the url and send it to my private message?

It would be a pain to have to bend down and open the cover to change the heat level using the Shaw valve. I'd like to see the valve with the 2 capillary tubes and where it can be purchased to show the repair person.

Mike
 
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Old 09-29-20, 10:04 AM
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I don't know why the link didn't work for you. It still works for me.

RobertShaw ..... GSV7028A

https://www.americanhvacparts.com/p-...tural-gas.aspx
 
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Old 09-29-20, 06:23 PM
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I'm not sure why I am getting this error. Here's what I get when I click on the url:

Your connection is not private

Attackers might be trying to steal your information from www.americanhvacparts.com (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards)
NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID

Click here to go back to Safety - which I did.

Or click here for advanced - which I tried today and got the following:
This server could not prove that it is
www.americanhvacparts.com; its security certificate expired 194 days ago. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection.

Is there another source for the
valve with the 2 capillary tubes? Is the cost comparable with the Robert Shaw 710-205 that is $114 on Amazon? Is it on Amazon?

Thanks again .... Mike


 
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Old 09-29-20, 07:32 PM
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The only thing I can think of is that they don't sell/ship to Canada... although it doesn't say anything about Canada on their site.


Snap Action Gas Valve Design

1/2" Gas Pipe Inlet
1/2" Gas Pipe Outlet
1/2" x 3/8" Reducing Bushing Included
Three Position Outlet
Remote Dual Capillary: 58-90F Temperature Range
Capacity BTUH: 100,000
Series snap-action and snap-throttle (modulating) hydraulic controls are combination gas valves, thermostatically operated by a remote temperature sensing bulb.
This is a remote dial, dual capillary model designed for cabinet mounting. These have an 18" capillary from the valve to the sensing bulb and a 48" capillary between the bulb and the remote temperature adjustment knob. The snap-throttle type controls are factory-set to snap on at 50% of the appliance capacity. From this 50% rate, the control will modulate up to full input rate if the demand for heat is great enough (as sensed by the remote bulb). As the temperature increase is sensed by the remote bulb, the control throttles the input back down to the minimum rate and when the temperature requirement is satisfied, the control snaps "off". These controls combine a manual valve (gas ****), an automatic pilot safety valve, pressure regulator (optional by model) and a snap-acting or snap-throttle hydraulic operator for total temperature control. All models feature 3-position main gas outlets and pilot outlet, pilot gas filter, pilot adjustment key and automatic pilot valve. The automatic pilot valve is separate from the gas **** and provides gas shutoff in case of pilot outage

Natural Gas Only:Yes
Gas Pipe Inlet:1/2".
Gas Pipe Outlet:1/2".
Reducing Bushing Included.
SNAP THROTTLE GAS VALVE W/2 CAPS.
Used in Older Model Free Standing and Wall Furnaces:

DV102AME VC235TLS GSW10-1 GSW20-1 GSW30-1.

Replaces Obsolete Gas Valve Part Numbers:

V5269F VS269F 0820617 407A895 7000STR-4-1H 7000STR-4 109917-2 36C07-196 7000ASTR-3-1H 1200ASR-1H 36C07196 36C06-196 700-210 GSV700208A 7000 AS-1H 7000 ASR111 1200-1H 700-209 700208 CAR700208.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently the valve was discontinued by RobertShaw and American HVAC has what was left of the stock. The RobertShaw part # 700-208.
700-208 valve
 
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Old 10-02-20, 06:06 AM
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Hi, have you checked on the price of a new unit? that one looks pretty tired. Is that grey stuff on the left a patch?
Geo🇺🇸
 
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Old 10-13-20, 12:56 PM
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Thanks Geous, yes the unit is pretty old. I checked into replacements - there are now fairly simple ones you can just hang on the wall and hook onto my natural gas line. These are fairly inexpensive and vent free which used to be rated for use in outdoor cabins and barns or in the garage but are now advertised as safe and rated for use indoors in the house. These seemed to be the answer instead of fixing this older unit.

However, I read on the web where people were still against using them as the same air is intake and heated and released back in the room - higher efficiency in heat not lost vented outside but concerns on the air quality. California where I live doesn't allow them to be sold but strangely, I see them available online from big box stores to ship to addresses in California. The fact California does restrict them, though, has given me reservations. So I have been looking at just repairing the current old direct vent unit.

I was told the Robert Shaw 700-205 dual capillary for remote temperature adjustment dial is discontinued. The latest estimate to replace the gas valve using a Robert Shaw 710-502 milivolt valve, a new pilot assembly with generator, and a wired thermostat for a remote temperature adjustment dial would be $853. To replace the entire wall heater, the estimate is $2797 - which is why I am looking at just replacing the gas valve.

Any alternatives that could be better are welcome !
 
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Old 10-15-20, 08:07 AM
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Old 10-15-20, 04:42 PM
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The 700-208 was the discontinued dual cap thermostat.
You had already located the 700-205.
 
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Old 10-16-20, 10:14 PM
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The latest question is whether the 700-205 is also discontinued too. Repair company said they had talked directly to Robert Shaw and claimed Robert Shaw told them that all replacement 700 series valves have been discontinued.

Latest repair proposal is to use the millivolt 710-502 (which is compact and used for RV's and tight spaces - I guess this may fit under the current wall heater without modification to the panel.) They plan also to replace the pilot assembled with a generator; then to add a basic wired thermostat onto the heater cabinet.

But the cost proposal has now gone up another $125 from $728 to $853.

Factors for consideration:
1. Gas valve cost
The retail cost of the proposed 710-502 is only about $65 at Zoro.com. Switching from the original proposed 710-205 that had the heat controls only on the top of the gas valve which cost almost twice as much at about $115 results in better capability and at less cost, should save some money.

2. Time for installation. Not only did the 710-205 cost more, it wasn't as convenient to use - there is no remote temperature adjustment control and you had to go under the heater to change the temperature. Using the 710-502 allows for remote temperature adjustment and to do that additional time for installation is needed to set up the remote wired thermostat. I had great help from Pete in locating the 700-205 which has a built in capillary system for remote temperature adjustment. It looks like, though, rather than a capillary hydraulic system, the proposal is to use the millivolt version of the gas valve for remote temperature adjustment which requires them to install the wired thermostat. Is that better than the hydraulic system with the built in capillary tubes? While having the built in capability may save some installation time, the cost of the 700-205 (which the repair company also says is discontinued) is about $300, a significant amount more.

One last factor for consideration. I asked why Robert Shaw was discontinuing the 700 series - there seems to be stock on hand available at Zoro, SupplyHouse, Amazon, etc. I was thinking having the remote temperature adjustment built in as being better than having the repair company wire and put together something. If discontinuing was not because of a flaw with the design nor a problem with its use (which I did not get an answer to the question) then maybe buying the 700-205 with the built in remote capability with the liquid filled capillary and sensing bulb may be a better answer and its higher cost offset by not needing the repair company to build and put together a wire and thermostat. However, it seems a millivolt solution with a wire might be more current solution and better than a liquid capillary method for remote temperature adjustment. True?


I have no knowledge of these and the differences. I know only what I know and learning this by reading the helpful posts here and looking at the manuals of each of the devices. It is very helpful and much appreciated to hear from those knowledgeable and experienced on this for your advice on the alternatives and the best way to go.

For example, in the 710-502 manual, it does talk about a difference in standards: “Millivolt Models Most appliances manufactured in the USA and Canada manufacture to meet the standards set forth by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). A recent revision in the standards “miswiring requirements for gas valves” was effective January 1, 1996. The reason for this standard was so that you as a service technician could disconnect the gas valve wires and reconnect them without making a mistake. Therefore all Robertshaw millivolt gas valves now meet the new standard. The 710-500 series millivolt gas valves now have a 1/4” quick connect terminal and a 3/16” quick connect terminal on the terminal block. There is NO terminal screw (or threads) on the side that has the 3/16” terminal.”

But that change was 24 years ago and it doesn’t seem logical that a gas valve line (700 series) would be discontinued for a problem that was handled 24 years ago.

Sorry for long discourse on this but not having experience in this, just poses questions from learning by just reading about it.
 
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Old 10-19-20, 01:33 AM
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Two more quick questions:

#1
With the thermostat, does the heat being turn on and off automatically or is it just a manual setting for the heat to reach the temperature and the user has to manually turn it off
#2
Is the millivolt gas valve compatible with direct ignition where there is no constant pilot flame?
 
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