Ventless Heater Question


  #1  
Old 11-17-02, 04:39 PM
petrie
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vent free natural gas stove

I am just looking for input on a natural gas stove we purchased from Lowes. It has a screened in front (no glass) and no vent to the outside. We were told when we purchased it that it was perfectly safe. When we inquired some time later about installing it(by a local company that we had out to clean our gas furnace), we were told that it was very unhealthy. We went back to Lowes to ask a few questions and to see if they had a vented model we could exchange it for. All they carry is vent free models and insisted that they are safe. They get the air they need by having the open front and they have an oxygen sensor that's suppossed to automatically shut it off if there's a problem. Before we go ahead and install it, we would like as much input as possible to make a safe choice. Thanks!
 
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Old 11-17-02, 05:43 PM
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Hello: petrie

Terms often get interchanged. Clearification requested.

Stove could mean:

Stove?
As in a cooking food stove with burner, grates & oven and broiler?

Or stove?
As in a heating appliance?
A heater used for room or area heating?
Pot bellied type stove used for room or area heating?
A fireplace stove?

Please use the REPLY button to add the clearification information. Doing so will move the topic back up to the top of the list automatically.

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  #3  
Old 11-19-02, 07:37 PM
petrie
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vent free gas stove

I'm sorry-I should have made myself more clear. It is a heating appliance. It is a freestanding cast iron model by Pyromaster. Thanks very much for your input!
 
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Old 11-19-02, 08:41 PM
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Hello: petrie

Thanks for that clearification on the term.

I do not recommend the purchase of nor suggest the installation of any vent free {vent less} appliances used for heating. Period.

In many states and certainly here in mine, such appliances are band from sales. Non vented appliances cannot be sold, installed or serviced by any licensed dealer, agency nor serviced by any. Utility and fuel companies included.

Purchase and install at your own risk. Your state, area or country may not have bands on ventless appliances nor code requirements.

I suggest you inquire before buying. Know the risks and choose wisely. For additional information, read the recent postings within this forum pertaining to heater topics and those in the heating & cooling forum pertaining to ventless heaters.

Regards & Good Luck, Forum Host & Multiple Topic Moderator.
TCB4U2B2B Company Enterprises. Energy Conservation Consultant & Gas Appliance Diagnostics Technician.
 
  #5  
Old 11-20-02, 03:19 PM
petrie
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vent free gas stove

Thank you so much for your input-we will definitely take this into consideration!
 
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Old 11-20-02, 09:37 PM
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Of the ventless/free standing heaters I've seen, they all say that they are not for indoor use, or must be provided a fresh air source by opening a window, door, etc.

The heater I use in my shop is one of those forced fan tublar ones, it says "for construction use only". I set it in the window, so that it sucks air from the outside. It has a 'tube in tube', so that the fan pulls in the air that it heats and uses for combustion, and the outer tube pulls in fresh air via vacuum effect.
 
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Old 11-21-02, 07:27 PM
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Lightbulb Unvented applainces

Basically you are running a furnace with a cracked heat exchanger.
You are breathing ALL of the combustion byproducts of the heater.
You should NEVER use one as a primary heating source.
As a SECONDARY heating source they should be ok if input does not exceed 10,000 BTU (for a spare room etc)
It's the large (over 10,000 BTU) heaters that are the primary cause for health problems.
Also you can't find VENTED gas heaters with low BTU inputs for under $400.00
I don't see why they can't make vented heaters as economically as unvented heaters, they can make a gas water tank for $139.00 ...
 
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Old 11-21-02, 07:35 PM
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I think the main concern is the length of time that they are usually ran, in a confined space, they could quickly use up all the oxygen and raise the CO2 levels.

As for the by products, all the by products of a gas cooktop go right into the room air, and since you are generally standing right over it, you get to breath it all in. Never heard anyone say cooking with gas was a health hazzard.
 
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Old 11-21-02, 08:00 PM
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Question Heat exchanger

Then why such the big fuss over a little hairline crank in the heat exchanger of a furnace ??
I think the key is BTU output, stove burners are around 10,000 BTU
 
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Old 11-21-02, 08:11 PM
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Could be, though I've seen some cooktops with 15k btu burners, and don't forget about the other 3.. you could have a cooktop with 60k btu.. equivilent to a lot of home furnances. I know when my furnace burner went out once, I easily heated the entire house with the stovetop and a box fan on the counter to pull the heat.

I think it's the time of use, you rarely use a cooktop for more than an hour (though you might use the stove for several, and it too is unvented), but your home furnace might run quite a bit.. Honestly, I don't what the difference is, maybe a furnace burner doesn't burn the fuel as completely as a cooktop?
 
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Old 11-21-02, 09:22 PM
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Hello Pendragon & 54regcab

To answer the question as to why a hairline firebox crack is such a big deal is liability, heat expands metal so the small crack becomes larger and as the fan passes air over the firebox it distorts the flames.

Flames simply burning on a stove top burner are not contained or distorted and therefore do not produce enough CO to cause personal harm. However, if those flames were wind blown and distorted, the CO levels rise dramatically.

Flames in the containment of a firebox where the burner flames are fanned by the air movement and or flames in any way distorted, the CO levels rise even more.

Add in the btu capacity and rating of a furnace, a fan blowing the distorted flames around producing huge amounts of CO, the fan to completely distribute the fumes & CO throughout the entire house, there is no escape.

A cracked furnace firebox fanning the flames causing flame distortions and or smothering flames within the firebox for any reason simply cannot compare to stove top burners left on nor a oven in operation with stove top burners on in a kitchen.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never heard nor read of any case of a CO death from cooking or baking with a stove in normal and correct operational condition. Cannot make this statement for any furnace.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 07:59 PM
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ventless heater

no , and no , been there and done that , you need air coming in from somewhere , and a open window is like not having a heater at all , like i said on another post these things burn anything that is in the air , and give off bad air to breath as they reburn what is airborn , like dust , glues , sprays of any sort , get a vent heater
 
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Old 11-27-02, 05:13 AM
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Unhappy Vented heater

Problem is you can't buy a vented heater under 25,000 BTU's
Or at least I haven't seen any that aren't $400+
See if you can even find a 10,000 BTU VENTED heater anywhere at any price.
I just don't see why a vented heater needs to be 3 times the price of and unvented model.
 
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Old 09-06-04, 09:05 AM
stanhoc
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I am posting this because this information is now appropriate.

Gas ventless heaters are no problem. I am not describing the propane heaters used in construction. I am refering to the propane space heaters used in homes for heating.
They are efficient, they work well when used within their design limits and most states allow them. Those that do not are not current and are over protective.
The flame can be seen and observed. Unless the burner is dirty the flame burns cleanly. You have to learn what a clean flame looks like, and the instruction manual provides this.
The heater has controls for safety. An oxigen sensor shuts the flame when there is not enough air available to support correct combustion. A thermostat controls the heat level, within reason, and the gas shuts down if the flame fails unobserved.
Within reason we must live with fire. Fire is dangerous and we do things to use it safely. This is a reasonable and correct use of fire.
For safety you should provide a fire alarm when do not provide direct observation of fire, as you do most of the time. You might also provide a CO dectector to protect against some types of bad combustion, but not all. This is the most you can do to be safe and still enjoy its benefits.
Stanhoc
 
 

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