Vintage Gas Oven/Broiler problems

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  #1  
Old 05-25-08, 08:57 PM
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Vintage Gas Oven/Broiler problems

I just picked up a vintage Gas stove (Monarch) and hooked it up today. The burners work great but there are two issues with the oven and broiler. This stove has an oven on the left side and broiler on the right. The pilot ignition for both oven and broiler work great. I see them glow red/orange and get a pilot light with the knobs turned on, however I don't hear gas for the burner in the oven half when I turn it up. On the broiler side, I hear the gas but the pilot does not ignite the burner. Seems lie the issue with the broiler might just be a clogged or obstructed burner? But the oven burner not getting any gas seems to be the main problem at the moment. Should I start by examining the line running from the regulator/thermostat to the carburettor (valve like part of the burner with a simple ajustable gate to allow air mixture), or is it more likely the regulator/thermostat? Any help would be appreciated. In the mean time I'll keep browsing posts to find something related.
 
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Old 05-26-08, 06:07 AM
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Hello H4L9000 and Welcome to the Do It Yourself Web Site and to the Gas Appliances topic.

I'm having a difficult time reading and understanding the problem description. If I understand the condition described correctly, both oven and broiler have hot surface igniter's (HSI) that glow. Which then light pilot flames. Is that correct?

If the above is correct and the burners do not light, chances are the safety elements in the pilot assemblies are defective and or dirty. If one or both safeties are defective, no gas will come out of the burners. Nor will you hear any gas come out.

Try cleaning out the pilot assemblies by blowing them out using a can of compressed air. Same type used to clean computer keyboards. Look for holes just above the location where the flames appear.

Also blow out the hole where the pilot flame appears. Once that is done, retry lighting the burner using the control knob to turn on the oven and or broiler. May resolve the problem.

Retail parts dealers and appliances parts stores can also help determine what the possible problem may be based upon that specific brand and model. Bring the make, model and serial numbers. Dealers and appliances parts stores are listed in the phone book.

Cautionary Reminder Note:
Before attempting any repairs, be sure to unplug the appliance from the wall receptacle power source first.

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Range-Stove-Oven-Broiler Basic Help Information & Manufacturers Web Sites. http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=159808

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  #3  
Old 05-29-08, 10:09 AM
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Clarification

Hi Sharp,

Thanks for the response. let me clarify a few things from my first post.

both oven and broiler have hot surface igniter's (HSI) that glow. Which then light pilot flames.
You are correct, although the broiler HSI only lights when the gas is barely turned on, otherwise it does not light the pilot but you hear the gas.

chances are the safety elements in the pilot assemblies are defective and or dirty. If one or both safeties are defective, no gas will come out of the burners. Nor will you hear any gas come out.
Is the safety element the rod like piece sticking out near the HSI with a small diameter tube running from it to the control knob or is that the 'cross over port' since there appears to be another one on the opposite side of the burner (I can't tell at the moment where the fine tubes connect)? Can these safety elements be replaced or are they somehow matched to the control knob?

Also, I would like to clarify my previous post. Initially when I had the gas line hooked up I tried both oven and broiler, and heard gas only on the broiler side when the control know was turned on/up. Then I realized you need to plug it in for the HSI. I point this out because as quoted above:

If one or both safeties are defective, no gas will come out of the burners. Nor will you hear any gas come out.
Does this mean that the safety is defective on the broiler side? It was allowing gas to run (to the burner?) without being powered (thus ignoring any input from the safety?).

I would also like to add a little more of my discovery. I believe the broiler side burner may be obstructed before the fine outlet holes of the burner. When the control knob is turned up I smell gas coming from the broiler oven vent so I think it is coming out the carburettor port before the burner. Does this sound like a reasonable assessment? Regardless of how long you wait the HIS never ignites the burner, yet gas is coming from somewhere. Could compressed air (from a compressor, not canned air) be used to blow out the burner from its' input (removed from stove), or could that cause more problems by forcing the obstruction further into the burner element and make it harder to remove?

Hopefully this is informative, I'll try to pick up some canned air and try blowing out the HSIs for now.
 
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Old 05-30-08, 10:55 AM
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Starting With The Basics First

Hello: H4L9000

Based upon the pilot description, those glowing coils light the pilots. The ignition system used on that appliance are not true hot surface igniter's. Instead they are glow coils, not an HSI. Two different ignition systems totally.

With the above (glow coils not HSI'S) in mind, gas will come out of the pilot assembly regardless of the fact the coils glows or does not glow. Nor if the coil glows hot enough to ignite the pilot flame gas or not. Gas will still flow out of the pilot tube to the pilot assembly.

With that in mind, chances are the glow coil(s) are not glowing hot enough to light the pilot flame gas. In this instance, you can light that pilot gas with a common match. Once you do that, the flame will then in turn heat the safety tube (element) and soon afterward the burner should light.

The point above is to determine if the coil(s) are glowing hot enough or if the pilot tube suppling gas to the pilot assembly is restricted or not.

ALL the above applies to both oven and broiler pilot assemblies. You will need to try each step in both my posts and determine the results. And post back the results so we can move onward.

Until I know the result of the above, I cannot speculate nor answer additional questions until the basics are known. Post back those results.

YES. The tiny element has a small tube attached to it. May run directly to gas control or thermostat or flame switch. However, at this point in time does not matter for now.

Cross over ports are only used on the burners. Have no bearing on pilots lighting nor glow coils glowing or being hot enough, etc. Nor the specific problem your having nor describing.

So we put that issue aside for now and deal specifically with the pilots lighting, glow coils glowing and burners lighting. No more and no less. Anything additional with only add confusions....

DO NOT use any air compressor to blow out anything on an appliance. Much to much volume and force. Regardless if you can regulate it or not. Do not due it.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 10:24 PM
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update

Hello again Sharp,

Apologies for the overload of information.

The glow coil does get hot enough to ignite the gas coming from the pilot gas line.
This is how I get the pilot flame lit:
I depress the control knob and the coil begins to glow. As I turn the knob the gas begins to flow and the pilot flame ignites from the coil. On the broiler side I get a small blue flame (about 5/8 inch) and on the oven side I get a larger blue flame (about 2-2.5 inches). Once the pilot flame is lit, the glow coil continues to glow. As I keep turning up the gas, neither burner ignites.

The broiler side is trickier to get ignited, however. You must turn the gas on to the threshold where it just starts to flow, any more and you can hear the gas but it does not ignite.

I also tried the canned air but it did not make any significant difference.

So the safety element determines when to allow gas to flow to the burner (sensing the heat of the pilot flame)? Is it suppose to open the valve for the gas line to the burner when it senses the pilot flames' heat?

Here are a few pictures to give you a better idea.
The Stove:


The Glow Coil:


The Flame:


DO NOT use any air compressor to blow out anything on an appliance. Much to much volume and force. Regardless if you can regulate it or not. Do not due it.
ok. was just seeing if I had a good reason to get a compressor.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 09:30 AM
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Hello: H4L9000

Below is your quote. I do not often use nor like quotes. But in this instance i have to use a quote, in order to differentiate between the oven description and the broiled problem description.

For each of our benefits, kindly separate and use paragraphs for each of the two (oven and broiler) and denote which one your referring to. I suspect the first quote below pertains to the oven. Yes? or No?

I depress the control knob and the coil begins to glow. As I turn the knob the gas begins to flow and the pilot flame ignites from the coil.
I suspect the above quote pertains to the oven. If correct, very possible either the pilot flame is to large. (
about 2-2.5 inches
).

Which may be as a result of wrong fuel type, over sized pilot orifice, pilot flame deflection, causing flame to angle off to one side, which is not in direct contact with safety element.

BTW: FYI
Safety element is the tiny tube (tiny bulb element in the pilot assembly) with a very thin tube extending out from it. That element must be heated fully and correctly by the pilot flame. (all blue flame) Element must be nearer the outer edge of the pilot flame. Flame must engulf the element but not extend beyond element by every much. Hope this helps. Difficult to describe...

If both, one or the other burner(s) (oven and or broiler) does not light, then that can indicate improper pilot flame size, element not being heated correctly and/or one or both elements are defective.

Be aware, electric power may be required to operate one or both of those safety elements. There are two types of safety elements. Fluid safeties (which both of them are) do not all require power. Flame switches due.

Both are safety elements. Fluid safety elements use fluid expansion pressure internally to push a pin on the control valve open to allow gas to flow. The electrical fluid safety closes an internal electrical contact which allows current to flow to the gas control valve.

How to tell the difference:
The electrical safety will have two wires extending out of the silver dollar sized device the tiny tube is attached to. And will not work if there is no power to the safety device.

The other fluid safety device looks similar but does not have 2 wires. No wires at all. The tiny tube extending out from the safety element, attachés directly to the gas valve. In some models the tube may attach to the thermostat. Rare case but possible on some models.

Both safety devices accomplish the same end results. No gas to the burner if element is defective or not heated at all or not heated correctly. Prevents gas build up in either the baking and/or broiler compartments. Which prevents possible explosions... should any source of ignition exist anywhere but at the pilot lights.

BTW:
No real possibility of information over load. The more specifics and the more details the better it is for me to help you and you to inform me....
 
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