Oven won't heat anymore, but cooktop range works fine

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Old 08-28-10, 01:29 AM
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Question Oven won't heat anymore, but cooktop range works fine

I see no markings or name of the oven anywhere. Its probably 30-40 years old and is a standard width range with 4 regular cooktops and a griddle center with cover for when not in use. The name Microtek is on the range hood above, but I can't rely that it means its the same brand as the range/oven itself.

The other day we turned on the oven and noticed it was in "Manual Oven" mode. Typically I had thought it was always set to "Automatic Oven" mode and when we realized it we turned it back to Auto.

Neither setting work now. We got a small amount of heat just 1 time before it just seemed to stop heating for good and that was the last time it was used. The cooktop range continues to work just fine.

I see a rectangular box at the bottom of the oven that stems off from the gas line. I imagine there is some type of igniter switch in there that gets the oven going, but I don't know what its called and I don't know the brand of the oven. What am I looking for to fix this?
 
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Old 08-28-10, 06:34 AM
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Hello searcherrr. Welcome to the Gas Appliances topic.

What needs to be known here is if the pilot remains on in the condition you're describing. If pilot is on while oven fails to light the burner, there may be a "RESET" button that needs to be pushed in, held in for a second or two and then released.

If there is no pilot on, then it needs to be relighted. Push in the often colored "RED" button, relight the pilot and release the red button so it pops out. Oven should now work with either step above done.

If not, describe pilot assembly and advise if pilot is "ON" or "OFF." Etc.

Read The Sticky Advice And Information Note In This Topic: Range-Stove-Oven-Broiler Basic Help Information & Manufacturers Web Sites. Range/Stove/Oven/Broiler Info, Leak Detection, Fault Codes, Fuel Conversion & Links - DoItYourself.com Community Forums

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Old 01-13-11, 12:15 AM
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Yesterday I took apart the oven/range. It appears to "ignite" flame only when it is needed. IE: Turn on gas range burner, then it lites a flame. Turn on the oven, then it lites a flame. It is not a constant running pilot light.

It is a:
Tappan Co. Appliance Division, Mansfield, Ohio, 44901
model / serial: 36-3272-23 / 04346-13504561

It has an Oven Safety Valve, Tappan 3.03/3.31
amp, 3.3 / 3.6 amp. (Eaton NC-4153-5). (Old 774T117S05) with a newer part number I found somewhere as this: 5303912679

Thermostat is (behind and part of temperature dial)
Part Number UNI-LINE part number
G1-1104 5320-175


Below are some photos to help illustrate what I have:
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2720.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2725.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2727.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2729.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2739.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2741.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2745.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2747.JPG

Problem behavior:
I would like to reiterate that the range (which shares the oven's gas supply) has been working as a range just fine all these months. Gas is split into the range, and on the same gas line after the range burners, into the end of the line oven via a gas regulator labeled RV35ACL. Upon trying to turn on the oven via the temperature dial, you hear the click inside the thermostat as if it is "closing the circuit" to turn it ON, but THERE IS NO GAS SMELL from the OVEN EVER at this point, nor is there a flame lit at the output port of the oven safety valve. The oven just sits as if it were never turned on.

On another note, I have no idea what the difference is between the manual vs auto oven dial, so we leave it on manual and I do not think it has any effect on whether or not the oven is on or off, but that its the temperature dial that determines that.

Apparently this oven has a broiler bottom drawer too and I've read that some people's broilers will still work while the oven won't. I have not tried the Broiler, but what that do me any good to try?

It was my feeling early on that the igniter has seen its better days, but having inspected the igniter and the element, it looks to me like its in good shape and may even be new. I don't know what these are supposed to oHm out to, but it oHms a continuity and the wiring is in good shape "looks new & clean".

I wanted to ohm the oven safety valve, but I don't know what values I'd be looking for here, nor on the thermostat.

One of the wires on the larger end of the connector that goes to the oven safety valve looks burnt, yet the wire inside the burnt sheathing ohms a continuity value that is some odd number. Again, I don't know what value I'd need to be looking for. All in all, I want to say I'd like to replace the burnt wire, but it looks like i'd have to remove the entire backside of the oven to pipe the wiring through to the right place. I didn't think of it, but I should ohm the wire for continuity from the burnt section to the thermostat connection to be sure that wire alone is good, but I will do that tomorrow.

I checked the only fuse I could tell was in the oven/range and its still good. Continuity is 0.00 infinity too, so I put it back in.

Currently the oven/range is torn apart all over the place and awaits my GRAND ole hands to put it back together.

This leaves me to think that the problem is likely either the oven safety valve or the thermostat. What do ya'll think?

and yes.... this oven has not seen service since last August 2010. lol
 
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Old 01-13-11, 02:21 AM
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One more thing. I just noticed something very ironic, although I can't figure out if its a smart or stupid observation. There are stop and start knobs/dials for setting the oven to stop and start at certain times. Well, both dials are set to exactly the same time (mechanical old 80's range/oven). Could it be this simple? Could both dials stop/start being set to the same thing be leaving an open circuit as in, "Time for the Oven to be in OFF mode." and could it be as simple as changing the stop/start times to DIFFERENT times? Perhaps stop/start are for "auto oven" setting? If so, then since i'm set to manual mode, this would have no bearing on anything huh?
 
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Old 01-13-11, 04:49 AM
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Hello: Searcherrr

I seem to remember this thread. Have a partially better understanding of the appliances oven based upon the newly posted information. Viewed the photos but to be honest, not of much help. All parts are very common to almost all stoves with ovens/broilers.

What is needed is a photo of the front of the stove and front panel controls and ovens pilot assembly. Each photo separately of the others.

I had first thought the appliance was a much older year model. Apparently not. I suspect the pilot is a spark igniter system. A spark fires to ignite a pilot flame to begin the operation. Likely does have such a system as a result of your mentioning a click heard in the thermostat. Kindly post photos of the thermostat also.

Auto setting is for time baking. Set the ON time and the OFF time. Used when you would not always be present. Setting it up to auto bake so food items will begin baking at set time and turn off when done automatically.

Oven must be set to manual for all other baking modes/operations. Such as while you are there. In manual oven should operate when you turn it on by setting temperature. When temp is set oven should fire up the pilot flame. Pilot heats a safety element and next burner lights up. If not, something is wrong. Determining what still needs to be known. Post back photos and results of manual setting results.
 
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Old 01-13-11, 08:26 AM
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It was common for oven setback features to be a problem if they were engaged and range users didn't know they were set. That will prevent the oven from turning on because that's the point of this feature.
 
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Old 01-13-11, 11:34 AM
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WELL EEXXXXCCUUUUUUUUUUUSSS--AAHHHH---SSSSSEEEE MEEEE! LOL - HERE ARE MORE PHOTOS PER YOUR REQUEST! LOL - THANKS FOR YOUR HELP BTW!

http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2748.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2749.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2751.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2753.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2757.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2758.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2759.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2760.JPG
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...e/IMG_2762.JPG

Also, not photoed is a flame spreader sheet of metal. Need pic of that too?

Photos 2745, 2746, & 2747 from previous post (2 back) show the back of the thermostat. Need better pictures of it? The new photos in this post show the temp (thermostat) dial.

All previous information given about oven testing was done in MANUAL mode. AUTO mode was never selected. In MANUAL mode, I hear the click when I turn on the TEMPERATURE DIAL, but no flame is ignited & no gas is emitted. So what you said should happen does not.

Yes, it is all "spark ignited" (the snap snap snap sound before flame on the range; dunno if you hear that when you turn on the oven, but you get the idea), not constant pilot.

Also note the burnt wire photo, though that wire still has continuity. That wire, along with its counterpart wire, plugs in between the ignitor and oven safety gas valve.

Don't know if it helps, but from my research, this unit seems to also be listed as a Frigidaire model (same model number, except with a slight variation at the end of the model #FRIGIDAIRE 36-3272-23-09 Tap(v4) / Gas Range). Maybe FRIGIDAIRE bought Tappan's stuff later on?

SeattlePioneer - I did not understand your reply. Please elaborate what you mean by "oven setback features being engaged" - What is another way to say oven setback feature? Are you referring to the oven gas safety valve?
 
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Old 01-13-11, 04:36 PM
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Thermostat switch is working properly or at least passes a continuity test with flying colors 0.00 infinity resistance when turned on.

Gas safety valve - Resistance between the gas safety valve terminals is 1.0 ohm, disconnected from wires and at room temp. Shouldn't I see 0.00l resistance here?

Ignitor resistance - Well, I recalled measuring this before and there was continuity, but just a little while ago I measured resistance through the ignitor with it unplugged and I get "ZILCH" - OPEN CIRCUIT. I guess in just gingerly handling the ignitor it went to pot. LOL. Before I was getting a high resistance, but I didn't know what resistance value it needed to be at the time, so I didn't know if that was bad or good at that point.

I do know though that OPEN CIRCUIT means.... nada on the flame-up. I resistance tested the wires individually and they are fine... its when the current goes through the ignitor element that I get nothing. I can't even get a closed resistance value measuring resistance on the element itself within a 1/4" of each other.

Ya'll think I should replace the "gas safety valve" too because of the 1.0 ohm on it or leave it be?
 
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Old 01-14-11, 04:14 AM
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Based on those new photos, better understanding of the appliance. Oven/broiler has a glow bar igniter (HSI). That part must be replaced as well as the burnt wire if you verified continuity and current flow through all the wires.

Best to also do a continuity test on all the switches too. And both those automatic time clock controls for time baking need to also be checked to verify proper operation and set to manual. Both seen in photos 2758 and 59. Burnt wire in photo 62 must be replaced and power or current verified before replacing it and also any parts.

The undertaking of this DIY project has already gone far enough if not already to far. Very likely could have been fixed well before this stage of the process. Very likely to have only needed a new wire and a new HSI. Might want to consider a total appliance replacement before spending too much $$$ on parts that may not resolve any issues. Just my opinion.
 
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Old 01-14-11, 12:51 PM
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I think that wire burnt out when the ignitor (HSI as you say) finally broke down.

I know I've gone far beyond what would've been required to fix the problem, but I do things like this to teach myself a "101" version of any given thing, so that in the future I know what I'm dealing with "the big picture" and "the little picture". Now I have an array of parts numbers, parts sources and I understand all the concepts of how and why a gas/electric oven works how it does.

During this process, I also made a very alarming discovery. There is a 240 volt HOT cable sticking out of the wall and it is literally just SITTING there on the floor with all 3 conductor's exposed to the air/floor/debris etc.. I'm very surprised after all these years of service and smelling excess gas from the oven before/after use that nothing bad happened, as in a BOOM or a FIRE.

Sharp Advice, thanks for your help a lot. I have but one more question. Periodically before the oven went out, I would smell small amounts of gas coming from the oven or range and it was just periodically and not usually close to before or after using the oven/range. Do you think a failing igniter could produce some very small amounts gas leaking from it or do you think that its possible the oven safety valve need replacing too?
 
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Old 01-14-11, 06:36 PM
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Sharp Advice, I replaced the ignitor today with a new matching ignitor and no dice. Oven still does not kick on. I repaired the burnt wiring too. Only thing I haven't done yet is verify "voltage" tests instead of continuity.

I would also like to know if I reversed the polarity of the ignitor, if the oven wouldn't kick on at all like its doing now? There was a tiny red dot on one of the new ignitor wires and one of the wire sheathing on the oven was red so I matched those up. But could this be wrong? Was the red dot a coincidence?

Currently, the new ignitor is not glowing and no warmth coming from the oven and there is NO gas smell, just like in the beginning.
 
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Old 01-15-11, 05:36 AM
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Hello: searcherrr

Do you think a failing igniter could produce some very small amounts gas leaking from it
HSI (Hot Surface Igniter) does not "produce" any gas. But it can allow some gas to pass through the gas valve if it is weak. Meaning not getting hot enough to allow valve to fully open or fully close.

or do you think that its possible the oven safety valve need replacing too?
Oven and or broiler gas valves wear out too. Most often it is a good idea to replace both the HSI and gas valve when the HSI needs replacing. A matching set, both new items.

Very likely as the HSI was failing it was passing a tiny amount of current to the gas valve or the gas valves internal plungers valve seat was not fully closing. (Same as a Leaky water faucet) Allowing a tiny amount of gas to pass through.

About all the informational help and advice I can offer you at this time regarding attempts to fix the appliance. Good Luck....
 
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Old 01-17-11, 11:19 AM
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Anyone else, or Sharp Advice again, with some electrical knowledge?

I think I have found a 2nd problem, with the oven gas safety valve, in that when I clamp my multimeter, to check the voltage, to the 2 leads that go to this valve while they are connected to the terminals on the valve I get "ZERO" voltage, but when I remove the leads from the valve and test voltage just on the leads alone I get some voltage values back.

That has to mean the gas oven valve is toast right? Seems pretty straight-forward to me, I just wanna be sure before I purchase the part.
 
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Old 01-18-11, 10:44 PM
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Well, going with my gut and electrical self-training. Ordered the gas valve. Replaced the burnt wire to the ignitor. Put in new ignitor. Hopefully when the gas valve gets here this week I can post back that my oven is back in business for another 10-20 years. lol
 
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Old 01-19-11, 01:37 PM
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1 more day till valve arrives. lol
 
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Old 01-21-11, 02:52 AM
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Sad day for a now very clean range and oven. Gas valve didn't do the trick. Only thing I can figure must be causing this problem now is the only other thing in the gas valve and ignitor electric circuit, which is the thermostat. Ugg... I wish I could 'verify' somehow with my EYES that the thermostat is bad.

**UPDATE: Even worse. I disassembled the thermostat and was actually able to reassemble it after cleaning the contacts in it thoroughly. Had it all together good and still working right and then... I over-torqued the mounting screws and that ruined any victory laps I might've had coming. One way or another tomorrow I will need to pickup a thermostat.
 
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Old 01-28-11, 12:40 PM
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Well, despite being abandoned on here, I just wanted to post back for the sake of having a complete thread to help others.

OVEN FIXED!!! After replacing the thermostat and a blown fuse and a broken ignitor, I'm back in business. Turns out the gas valve was fine, but having replaced most of the circuit already (ignitor, thermostat & wiring) why not go with a new gas valve to make it all new. Was around $170 total. New ranges/ovens (with 5 top burners like we have) start at around $425 and up, so it was a worthwhile savings and I have learned a tremendous amount about Gas/Electric ranges/ovens that I never knew before. My prior electrical knowledge was a big help though and I highly recommend if anyone go through all this on their own that they spruce up a lil bit on basic electrical info. IE: Continuity, voltage, positive and negative sides of the line, etc..

The hardest part of all of this was cleaning the oven/range. I'm still not done with that, but it works and thats what matters. I would say I have expended 30 - 40 labor hours in the fixing and cleaning. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE OUT THERE!!! DIY TILL THE END!!!
 
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Old 01-29-11, 02:04 PM
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Sorry you felt abandoned and happy that your stove is now operational.
I had also followed this thread as I was working on a similar problem with a different range.
I do have the knowledge to troubleshoot and repair appliances, however it is not my area of expertise or experience.
Sharp had already chimed in and I felt he had more experience and so myself was trying to leach some of that as well

Just to add info to this thread for others as well, and reiterate my own education:

Originally you posted the range was 30-40 years old, which I would have assumed the same as I believe Sharp did, that it would have had a typical "Pilot" that needs to remain lit in order to fire the oven.
Once you did find and post the correct info on the range, and found that it had an HSI ignitor system, that changed a whole mess of diagnostics.
As you posted on measuring resistance of components, you mistakenly/unknowingly (I hope) reported conflicting readings:
Continuity=0.00 ohms, IE: touching your leads together
Infinity=O.L. (Over limit) IE: holding your leads apart, or measuring air.
Initially you would have needed to check the current draw of the ignitor or amps. Not all meters are capable of doing this, and the ones that are need to be connected in series with the valve and ignitor, or use an amp clamp.
You never gave a value for the supply voltage although you did state having measured it and showing voltage. Both leads to the ignitor and valve disconnected from the valve and ignitor, should have showed 120VAC.
VAC across the valve terminals with wires connected should have been around 3VAC.
Current or Amps, with a capable meter and correctly connected, should have been above 3=3.3amps minimum.
I honestly don't think the thermostat was the problem, but rather something else amidst your troubleshooting and work. Perhaps the fuse was blown by your testing before you replaced the original defective part....

At any rate, glad you got it and Happy Baking
 
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