Roper Town and Country, Bryant lighter doesn't work

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Old 10-30-12, 08:14 AM
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Roper Town and Country, Bryant lighter doesn't work

Hi: Ken
Post this exact info in the gas appliances topic please. The intent is so other members can read my full reply with advice so they also can learn. Basically, a bryant lighter has a thin metal strip with a steel ball on it. When the second flame heats the steel strip it warps and the steel ball is lifted off the gas orifce hole and gas flows. They are a non repairable item. At the age of the part not likely it will work anymore after being taken apart. Needs to be replaced if a new one can be purchased. Best as can recall they are not easy to get new if at all.
Tom

I read what you wrote, but have some additional questions if you don't mind. I have a Roper Town and Country with 3 Bryant lighters. Its "new" to me so I have no prior knowledge of its history. The broiler works, but both ovens don't. The primary pilot works fine. The secondary pilot which activates upon turning the oven knob on works fine, but the main burner does not fire up. My question is: If the secondary pilot comes on upon turning the oven knob on does that mean the Bryant lighter safety is working properly but I have a main burner problem, or am I still with a Bryant lighter problem? And can I take the Bryant lighter apart while still attached to the stove, or must it come out?

Thanks,
Ken
 
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Old 10-30-12, 08:46 AM
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More detailed info on Bryant lighter problem

There is a posting dated 9-9-01 from member jbclem that relates to the Bryant lighter. He talks about both a shop in LA and himself rebuilding this Bryant lighter.

Seeing that I am without two working Bryant lighters and therefore without two working ovens I have no further downside to trying to fix mine. I have studied the operation of all 3 of my Bryant lighters. The one that works (Broiler) seems to do something that the other two do not. However I can only view this Bryant lighter from below because its the broiler and the lighter is up top. This Bryant lighter sends a secondary pilot flame towards the main burner AND one backwards towards the center of the Bryant lighter itself. I am guessing that this is what heats the bi-metal strip. So then I looked at oven A Bryant lighter and it only sends a secondary pilot flame towards the main burner. So I manually with a BBQ lighter sent a BBQ flame back towards the center of the Bryant lighter and the main burner came ON but only very marginally. Next I looked at oven B. The secondary pilot flame is very short compared to the broiler and oven A. It doesnt even reach its main burner and there is no back flame towards the center of its Bryant lighter.

So following what member jbclem said in his posting I guess I need to clean the orifices that direct the pilot flame towards the bi-metal strip. That should fix oven As problem. Oven B needs a pilot flame length adjustment just for starters. Where is the adjustment for the secondary pilot flame length? I have a Wilcolator type C thermostat. There are two adjustment screws in front on top of this thermostat, one in line with the Bryant lighter pilot gas supply line. I tried turning it one full turn clockwise and then one full turn counter clockwise to see what would happen but no change in pilot flame length.

Ken
 
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Old 10-31-12, 06:36 AM
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Hello Ken. Welcome to the Gas Appliances topic...

Thanks for posting in the forum topic. Questions asked here in the topic and your well explained, detailed and specific Info you provided is all excellent. Thanks.

A Bryant lighter has a round slightly extended tip at the front. A hole or cone shape, , if you will. The lighter that works constant burning (always on) pilot flame size extending out of the cone or hole, should be clean burning and all blue in color. About the size of a stick matches head. Using that as a comparison, the other two lighters should be identical.

If one or both of the other lighters doesn't have the same pilot flame size, compared to lighter that works flame size, try this. Use a pipe cleaner to clean out the hole. Insert pipe cleaner straight into hole fully but gently until it bottoms out, the twist it in a circle then slowly remove it. Okay to do this while thermostatic is off and pilot is on. Relight pilot flame and note if flame size changed. Should have if any restriction was present and or anything like debris restricted gas flow.

The idea and intent doing the above is to be sure that pilot flame can, does and will positively ignite the safeties flame located on top of the Bryant lighter. That pilot flame also increases in flame size to insure proper burner ignition. Therefore, flame size is critical. If you cannot establish the above, the lighter has a pilot flame internal restriction.

Industry wide I knew of no service company nor service agent, repair agency or tech that serviced such lighters. Nor was I ever often lucky enough to disassemble a Bryant lighter, clean it and reassemble one without some difficulties. Usually as a result of rusty screws and parts. Reassembly was usually always difficult. Be aware, taking one apart can be time consuming, difficult and not always successful. Additionally, the safety may not function as it should. Result is an inactive safety that allows burner gas to immediately flow to burner when T-Stat is turned on, ignition flame or not. Can be a safety concern, hazard and/or dangerous.

Once all the above pilot flame cleaning attempt is completed successfully and the actuating flame established on the top of the lighter, if cleaning resolves any prior gas flow to pilot flame restriction, note the flame size, shape and color on top of the lighter. That flame on top heats the safety warp switch. The metal warp safety device that unseats the ball off the orifice.

Actuating flame on top should be blue and may have a slight yellow color tip. Should look (appear to the eye) visually the same as the lighter that works. If not a cleaning would be required. Which ca be done using canned compressed air or canned computer keyboard spray cleaner. Same may apply to pilot flame hole as note above.

In regards to the thermostats having two set screws for adjustments, one is for the constant pilot burning (always on) flame. Should be a stamped marking on it to indicate it's function. Then the other is for the actuating flame size on top of the lighter for some thermostats. Also marked to indicate it's purpose. Other T-Stats models, one screw used for the entire pilot flame size and safety device heater flame size while the other adjustment screw is used to adjust burner flame size during bypass, that's where burner never turns off (cycles) fully. Burner flame size only reduces flame size as oven heats and burner flame remains on in reduced size to maintain set heat temperature.
 
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Old 10-31-12, 06:53 AM
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For clarity both quoting and replying here.

"So following what member jbclem said in his posting I guess I need to clean the orifices that direct the pilot flame toward the bi-metal strip."
Answer is YES.

"That should fix oven As problem."
Answer is hopefully but not assuredly.

Oven B needs a pilot flame length adjustment just for starters. Where is the adjustment for the secondary pilot flame length?
Yes. Cleaning as noted above and possibly an adjustment may be needed. Screw on thermostat.

"There are two adjustment screws in front on top of this thermostat, one in line with the Bryant lighter pilot gas supply line. I tried turning it one full turn clockwise and then one full turn counter clockwise to see what would happen but no change in pilot flame length."
If flame size does not change even slightly, may indicate a restriction at the orifice. Flame size changes for the purpose of adjustments and or reason and why an that adjustment screw is present. A restriction may be present due to normal corrosions over time. Doesn't take very much to restrict flow because the orifice hole or slot is very tiny.

Hope all or most of the above helps.
 
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Old 11-01-12, 09:08 AM
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I tried using the pipe cleaners on both ovens sticking them into the end of the secondary pilot flame hole. The secondary pilot flame length is now actually shorter than before (both ovens). I did find the secondary flame length adjustment screw. I can turn the flame OFF, but not long. The length of flame coming out is fixed and too short. I am going to remove the Bryant lighter next, no choice. I see that it is assembled with tiny rivets. That going to make dis-assembly FUN. I'm going to have lunch first, if you have any other ideas now is the time!
 
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Old 11-01-12, 09:43 AM
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Seeing that I have a gas flow restriction problem with my secondary pilot flame I came up with this idea. Its easy too! Take the gas tubing off the back of the thermostat that feeds the secondary pilot flame and blow compressed air into it. I'm off to the store now. What do you think?
 
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Old 11-02-12, 06:36 AM
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The compressed air did not work. BUT in taking the Bryant lighter out I found something very interesting. There is an inline orifice in the secondary pilot gas line from the Wilcolator thermostat. I moved that orifice from the oven (which did not work) to the broiler (which does work) and it now don't work. Then I moved the orifice from the broiler to the oven and the oven seems to be passed its initial problem. The oven Bryant lighter now lights back toward the bi-metal strip. Now the oven main burner is trying to work, it flames up a little and then stops, then flames up a little and then stops. Knowing that the set screw on the right of the Wilcolator thermostat (Type C) is the adjustment for the secondary pilot flame length, I figured that the set screw on the left must be for the main burner. But turning that set screw does not improve the performance of the oven main burner. FYI I did take the Bryant lighter (Type P) out, did nothing to it after finding that orifice, but I can say that the ball bearing inside the Bryant lighter is free to move when you turn the lighter upside down and all around. My questions are:
1. Is the set screw on the left the adjustment for the main burner?
2. Does the main burner gas line have a orifice also that I can not find?
 
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Old 11-02-12, 07:59 AM
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Roper Man

Sure be nice to have your first name instead of members name if you care to include it at the end of your next reply post.

Notice in the last paragraph of my post number 4 I mentioned orifices? Yes. One or both flames in the lighter may have orifices. Usually blowing compressed air into the flame openings clears out an dust restrictions. Usually but not always. Corrosion does accumulate on orifices but more likely where they screw in and inject the flow of gas they control. Try blowing can of compressed air into the hole where the orifice was removed from.

Also look for a tiny air opening on the lighter where the orifice (on the gas input tube) is screwed into lighter. Has to be an air opening which allows some air in to mix with gas so the flame can burn blue and not yellow. Blow compressed air into those tiny (secondary) air openings to clear out any obstructions etc.

When orifice is out, hold it up to a light and note how tiny the hole and or more likely a slot is in the orifice. That hole or slot cannot be enlarged not even a tiny tiny bit. But you can blow it clean by mouth or canned air.

Warning. Do Not drop or lose it. If dropped it might be difficult to locate if lost from hand and/or dropped on floor or work bench or work surface!!!... Be sure work area or surface is clean and free of clutter, etc.

Main point is to avoid enlarging orifice opening. Do Not use a pin to clear orifice either. Only blow it out if need be. Then when done place orifice back onto end of gas tube and HAND thread to start threads into lighter hole. Can not afford to cross thread or damage tube nut.

Usually what you're doing thus far IMO is way beyond what a DIY'er handy person may be capable of. Mechanically and comprehension wise that is. Thus far you're doing well. Continue with attempt to fix and continue to post back what you did and the results.

Tom
 
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Old 11-02-12, 10:33 AM
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Major update. After removing both Bryant lighters and studying them they looked too good to me to not be working correctly. I could go over what I did to make this judgment call but lets continue. I was thinking that the assumption that gas for the main burner was actually showing up at the Bryant lighter could be wrong. So I ran a piece of flex line in place of the Bryant lighter, thereby bypassing any safety shutoff. And I plugged the secondary pilot light line. I stood there with my BBQ lighter and turn on the oven (Oven A). The main burner did NOT get any better, just a tiny flame. Then I repeated the flex line setup for oven B. Oven B main burner did not work at all. Just like before. Therefore the problem is within both Wilcolator thermostats. I am going to take them apart next. I wish I had a diagram, but if all else fails (putting it back together) Ill just send it off to a repair place. Questions:

  1. Why the bother of an orifice in the secondary pilot flame line? After all there is an adjustment for the flame height.
  2. Anybody have a diagram for a Wilcolator Type C thermostat?
  3. Does anybody know of a repair place to send these out to?
  4. Is the set screw on the left of the Wilcolator for main burner flame height?

My name is Ken and I am way beyond a DIY handy man. It is not unlike me to take apart anything fix it and put it back together. I also have a degree in Engineering.

Its been 2 hrs since my last post so I am just adding more to this post.
Well its not the Wilcolator thermostats. In disconnecting the main burner gas line from the back of the thermostats, gas comes out good and fast. So I followed the gas line down to the main burner skipping the Bryant lighter and the gas stops at the, you guess it, the next and last set of orifices!!! There is an orifice just before the main burner. I cleaned out oven "A" orifice and its up and running. Oven "B" orifice is sitting in WD-40.
 

Last edited by RoperMan; 11-02-12 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 11-07-12, 02:05 PM
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After WD-40 ing oven "B" main burner orifice, taking it apart, cleaning it out, and then re installing it still doesn't work. But oven "B" does now work when I use a flex line bypassing the Bryant lighter. So now its down to just the Bryant lighter. I had to soak the top nut in WD-40 for 2 days to get it off. I am NOT going to force anything!!! Inside is a ball bearing that sits on top of a tapered hole. When the ball bearing is push off the hole by the bi-metal strip, gas should flow. I hooked the Bryant lighter to a pilot flame gas source on top of the stove so that access to and repairing the lighter would be easier. Each time I turned on the gas source to the Bryant lighters secondary pilot light the lever that pushes the ball bearing out of the way hardly moved. And it did not return after the pilot light was turned off. So I soaked the lever and manually pushed the lever a little further than it wanted to go on its own. And then manually pushed the lever back to its rest position an hour after I turned the pilot light off. TWO days and 30-40 cycles of pilot light on and off and the lever now moves freely in both direction. Hooked everything back up, problem SOLVED. I took great pictures in an attempt to document this week of FUN. If anybody is interested just contact me.

Ken
 
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Old 11-08-12, 06:15 AM
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Hi: Ken

Glad you had all that "FUN" fixing Bryant lighters.... They are some what complicated assembly devices but they worked well for the intended purpose back in those early days of gas appliances.

Question now is are they functioning properly? Meaning, until the Bi Metallic Warp strip heats up and unseats the ball off the gas orifice hole, does the burner have gas flow? Burner should not have gas flowing to burner until safety heats up and unseats the ball. If it does, the safety is not working. Which presents a major safety hazard...

You can post pictures here or on to a photo site and insert the link to that photo site as a link here. Your choice. Might be a good idea to show the pictures to every one else whom is also reading this thread.
 
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Old 11-08-12, 07:08 AM
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Correct. There MUST BE a delay in time between the time the secondary pilot flame comes on and the main burner comes on. That is the PROOF that the safety feature is working. And it is working!!!

Ken
 
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Old 11-19-12, 05:31 PM
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Guess there is more FUN to be had. I just figured that the Wilcolator thermostats (Type C) worked. Well one doesn't. And it could of been me screwing with it. In the beginning, oven "B" had no main burner flame at all so I turned a set screw on the thermostat all the way and then forgot how much to turn it back. So maybe I did something wrong. The thermostat has two set screws, one is definitely for the secondary pilot flame length and the other is for WHAT? Is it for calibrating the thermostat? When I turn oven "B" on, say 300 degrees, the temperature just climbs to 475 and keeps going. If the other set screw is for calibrating, then I'm good, but I would like to know first before messing with it again.

Ken
 
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Old 11-20-12, 02:39 PM
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Ken

I'm getting confused with discussion of two lighters and two ovens. Let's stick to the one (B) that does not work please.

Yes. There are two set screws on the thermostat behind dial. One is for the heater flame size. Other should be the burner flame size. Since some models burner flame does not always turn off (Go Out) fully. Simply reduceses in size. So, one so one set screw adjusts the flame that heats internal warp switch to unseat ball and the other set screw adjusts burners minimun burner flames size.

Constantly on pilot flame to bryant lighters should have a set screw located under top lid where the 4 top burner flames are. Tube runs directly off main gas manifold. Set screw to turn off gas to all pilot flames are on the tubes to each on the manifold.

Am I Making sense here? Clearly defined? Hope so. Advise.
 
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