Cost of New Home HVAC System


  #1  
Old 10-11-02, 11:25 AM
dre1988
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Cost of New Home HVAC System

I'm a new home owner. I've got a house with an HVAC system that is about 15 years old. I have an HVAC technician come out to do pre-winter service. He said that my system should be replaced. He does not even recommend using the gas heating system as it is too dangerous at this point. He quoted a price of $2900.00 to replace the heater and air conditioning units and the duct system. The new HVAC system would be Bryant brand.

Am I being given a good price here? Is Bryant a good HVAC system/ I'm not familiar with them.

I'd really appreciate any advice that you can offer.
Thanks!
 
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Old 10-11-02, 11:45 AM
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First, search around the net and do your homework. A better informed consumer will probably make a better decision and be happier in the long run. This is your house, the air quality that you breath will larglely depend on what you buy.


Get at least 2 more estimates and compare apples-to-apples as far as the efficiencies (AFUE etc..). Talk with friends and neighbors and get referrals for estimates. There are alot of factors involved.

Most MFG's make good equipment. Alot of brands are made by the same MFG (Bryant and Carrier are basically the same). Each brand makes low-end price oriented (builder's grade) and high-end performance oriented equipment (premium).

Take as much time as you can(within safety concerns). But since the furnace was not condemed (turned off) you probably have more time than you think. I would buy a Carbon Monoxide detector to be safe.

You do not have to replace the entire system, you can replace the furnace now an wait on the AC. Did the serviceman give you an estimate to repair your current system?

Either way, get some more opinions...
 
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Old 10-11-02, 01:18 PM
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Wink duct work

IM with klute . Did This guy say why you need new duct work???
ED
 
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Old 10-11-02, 01:21 PM
dre1988
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Yes he did say he would redo the duct work.
 
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Old 10-11-02, 02:06 PM
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Wink duct work

You dont say what size on the A/C or on the furnace.AFUE 80 92%
or what? make him write it down for you
why why why the new duct work??????? ED
 
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Old 10-11-02, 02:07 PM
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Each prospective contractor should do a load calculation to determine what size equipment you need. Most contractors simply replace the size that is already there. By rule-of-thumb, it will probably be fine, but I would have a calc done to be sure.

Also, bigger is not better when it comes to the sizes. Too big AC is actually worse than too small.

When you find the contractor you like, try and negotiate a yearly program with them for maintenance. Most will offer at a reduced rate for twice a year check ups. This also gets you on their preferred customer list, that should take precedence over other customers if you ever need emergency service. It will also save you $ having your system working at peak performance for all seasons.

Your HVAC makes your house comfortable, how much is comfort worth to you?
 
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Old 10-11-02, 03:41 PM
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Lightbulb Rule of thumb

Chances are your furnace is TWICE the size it needs to be and the A/C is oversized 50%

The study was conducted by the DOE.
I know MY last 3 homes could have done with a heater 1/2 the size that was installed
 
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Old 10-12-02, 07:46 PM
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I've looked at this post three times now and each time passed it by. But since I keep looking at it I figure I should say something.

Duct work can be cleaned, look in the yellow pages. But gut up there and look in your duct's before shelling out money.

Wait, back up. Bottom line is, is your system working? Any tech (well most) who comes to your house is going to try and sell you something. Get some thermometers and check the "cross coil temps" if you have between 14 ang 20 degrees rise/fall in temperature your good.

Bryant is a division of Carrier, a cheap division at that. Basically what you have is a system that was cheap at the time your house was built and the HVAC contractor put in what would make hime the most money and keep the homeowner happy until he/she was long gone.

Look into geo-thermal and, after an expence, save a ton of money.
 
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Old 10-13-02, 06:20 AM
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good advice here

am too familiar with the "you have to replace this" line during heat or a/c inspections. DO get other bids, DO be sure that a heat study is done, and DO get a maintenance contract. in atlanta, $2900 is fair for a standard (80% furnace, 10 SEER a/c) system between 2 and 3 tons. we are carrier dealers, and i would not mind having a bryant....it is not what i have at my house, but a decent system none the less.
 
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Old 10-13-02, 09:16 AM
clawso1
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Hey dre1988 check this site out before doing anything!! You will be glad you did! http://www.askthebuilder.com/cgi-bin/search
 
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Old 10-13-02, 05:22 PM
dre1988
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Thank you for your very informative responses thus far.

I sought out another quote from a Trane representative and they have quoted $4,250 (includes tax, installation, programmable thermostat, vibration pan, conversion from gas to electric - all electrical work - including additional breaker box, one year maintenance agreement, and 10 year parts and labor warranty).

What do you think about this offer, I am seriously thinking of going with this unit over the Bryant - quoted at $2,855.

I say this because I have heard positive feedback about Trane...
the price difference, however, is very concerning.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
AL
 
  #12  
Old 10-13-02, 05:38 PM
U owe me
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A $2,900 system change out is cheap. Too cheap. Sound like a bottom feeder.
 
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Old 10-14-02, 07:59 AM
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Dre,

Your taking out a Gas system and putting in all Electric forced Air system???

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Why are you switching from gas to Electrici if you are? I'd ask the dealer to give you a compair pricing on what it would cost to run gas and electric heating system in your area... and what state are you in?

I know a guy who moved into a home that had Electric forced air system and it made him broke the first month of running it. He got a gas system put in right away after his first bill.
 
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Old 10-14-02, 08:04 AM
dre1988
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The dual (gas/electric) system priced out at $5600.00. I'd rather avoid gas altogether in my house for safety reasons. Also, based on gas prices in GA, electric heat generation should be cheaper. My wife has relatives in the Minnesota (where they claim to have the coldest temperatues in the Union) and they recommend electric over gas in terms of heating costs also.
 
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Old 10-14-02, 08:29 AM
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Electric cheaper than gas in MN??? I'd love to know who sells it them! :-)


Being that your in GA, your going with Heat Pump System? Then yeah your better off going that way for heating being that you don't get the cold weather like us in Minnesota.

Gas appliances now days are pretty safe compair to 30 years ago.. I have all gas in my home and grew up that way too and have no fear of it at all.

Trane is a good product, and my parents just had a new Trane Furnace and A/C installed and are very happy with the product, and also has good warrenity on it.
 
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Old 10-14-02, 08:32 AM
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look at the cost

Id say that $4200 for the Trane is right for all the new work on the elec.One here said do and another said dont,Ill still say look at what is the fuel cost for each, gas and electric.Here in the center of MO. about all we put in are heat pumps ED
 
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Old 10-14-02, 08:46 AM
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Here in StL, I prefer gas. I replaced a HP with gas to years ago. I think the gas heat is just more comfortable than HP, if you call it heat.

In Atlanta, the HP is probably all you really need. Is there a question of resale value? Locally, many houses are tough to sell if the do not have gas, so you may want to think about it.

If you like Trane (good product), I would get another bid from another Trane dealer. Trane is a premium product and a premium price, they advertise alot, and that cost you alot of $. I would call a local Amana dealer, my contractor sells Trane and Amana.
 
  #18  
Old 10-14-02, 11:16 AM
binford
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Cost for HVAC

I had a contractor come out and I got a price of $6,700 for a 80 gas and 13 SEER on a 3 ton A/C (California) This also included an electronic air cleaner, new breaker in the electric panel, new disconnect box, new freon lines, clean and seal the ducts, and new registers. The biggest differences I have seen between dealers is the warranty, this guy offered 10 years parts and labor and would replace the whole outside A/C unit if the compressor failed within 5 years. Put me up in a hotel if not fixed with 24 hours. He also told me he paid pays a premium to an outside company to perform the service work in case his company is not around in 10 years. You also get 2 maintenance calls included. One for the winter and one for the summer, to make sure everything is working correct. Also guaranty a 25% reduction in utility bills or would pay the difference. As you can see this is a full service dealer and it cost about $1,300 more than the other dealers.

Also another thing to consider is the type of refrigerant used.
He recommended R22 (HCFC-22)over the R410
R22 is being phased out with total production phased out in the year 2030. Equipment that uses R22 2009.

R410-A is the new replacement, which is a 50/50 blend of HFC-32 and HFC-125. The problem is with a blend system is if you get a leak, they can't just top it off. They have to evacuate the whole system and put in new R410. The reason is the two refrigerants won't leak out at the same rate so this changes the blend rate and potentially changing the performance of the blend.

"Iterant is bliss" If you only just had the work done and not asked for opinions.
 
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Old 10-14-02, 02:50 PM
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Gee, you seem to be putting yourself through the ringer on this one Dre.

Go to this site http://www.luxaire.com/locator.asp and type your zip code. Find a Luxaire dealer and get an estimate from them. York, Luxaire, Frasher-Johnston, and Colman/Evcon are all the exact same units except the each come with a differant name plate sticker.

I'd suggest either a 10 or 12 SEER heat pump with 10KW electric Heat installed. Use a Variable Speed air handler to raise the SEER a point or two. Also a 10 SEER unit has 5 years on the compressor and 5 years on parts. A 12 SEER unit will have 10 year warranty on the compressor.

Post the prices your guoted for the units and I can tell you if the price is good. How? I'll look in my price book (I work for a Luxaire Distributor) and tell you what they should cost.

I understand a system is a large expense but in Atlanta (even here in VA) &2800 is high end for a new system of any kind. Or maybe I'm just cheap.

Chris
 
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Old 10-14-02, 04:44 PM
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over all cost

JAR---If you add all the new electrical work and he needs a new elec. panel with the heatpump I'd say it right in line with cost here
ED
 
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Old 10-15-02, 05:39 AM
dre1988
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THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES, THEY HAVE BEEN VERY INFORMATIVE!
I have YET ANOTHER question. My wife and I have been discussing the costs of electric verses gas incurred for running the system. We have heard mixed messages from individuals and the graphs shown to us from the Trane Sales Rep made it appear as though running the electric was actually cheaper, however we have been informed to expect our electric bill to increase 3 fold if we run the electric system. I know we need to compare the amount we pay for each kilo watt and each ream, which right now our gas is cheaper per each ream (however we are under a negotiated contract which expires in January- and the news is stating gas prices are going to increase this winter).

Right now, we are both confused. We are actually thinking about going with the Dual Fuel (but the cost quoted is $5,400- talk about an investment!). Would the investment really be worth it in GEORGIA where winter is really only 2 months and temperatures rarely drop below 30? I know if I was in Minnesota, I would be going with the gas system because below 30 degrees gas is cheaper to run then electric (based on the information provided by the gentleman from Rochester and some research I have done).

Any additional advise would be appreciated,

AL
 
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Old 10-15-02, 06:19 AM
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Make as simple as you can.

The dual fuel is the most effcient, but you probably won't use the gas furnace that much, mostly the HP.

How are your gas prices/bills currently? You old system is about 60% efficient. Your new system will be at least 80% effcient, so your gas usage will go down (so should your bill). Electric heat is 100% efficient, but your electric bill will also go up, but then you will not have a gas bill (assuming no other appliances).

Any type of calculations will be rough estimates as far as the cost comparisons.

Personally, I think your best course of action is to replace with gas. You won't have to extra for switching over.
 
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Old 10-15-02, 06:38 AM
dre1988
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Klute:

In winter my gas bill is usually around $120.00 and electric around $50.00. In summer has is around $40 and electirc around $120.

Jarredsdad:

Here is what we've been quoted thus far.

Dealer 1 (Small dealer) -
Bryant Gas System with Installation & Tax, 10 SEER - $2,855.
Trane Gas System with Installation & Tax, 12 SEER - $3,755.

Dealer 2 (Biggest in Town. Sell out of Home Depot. ) -
Trane Electric System with Installation & Tax, 12 SEER - $4,250.
Trane Dual with Installation & Tax, 12 SEER - $5,563.

How do these numbers sound? We'll have more quotes coming in this weekend.

Thanks for all of your input!
 

Last edited by dre1988; 10-15-02 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 10-15-02, 07:15 AM
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The ######

The ###### look about right to me. NOW,next how long do you think you will be in this home Then look at the ###### ED
 
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Old 10-15-02, 07:15 AM
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Smile money talks

Go with the small dealer and get the 12 Seer Trane with gas.

Bigger dealers, don't mean better systems.

The money saved by the small dealer could not be made up in any cost saved with a dual system. Since the difference is $2800.00 dollars and the warranty is 10 ten years with a Trane.

I have found the bigger dealers, just spend more money to advertise.
 
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Old 10-15-02, 07:31 AM
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Where is it

Why didnt you get a bid for the trane elec. set up from the small dealer? Lets look at apples to apples ED
 
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Old 10-15-02, 03:23 PM
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Angry This is really getting long

First, Ed, If the new units are of the same size chances are the "New Electric" is BS. At the most they should only have to change a breaker. Cost about 10 - 20 bucks. Remember it's the dealer saying a new electric panel not an "electrician", that sounded fishy when I read it and still does.

Dre,
These are list prices for Luxaire, where possible I'm going middle rather than high or low end:

94% gas furnace (3 ton) $1593 x .410, 3 ton A/C 12 SEER $1171 x .506 or 10 SEER 3 ton $998 x .410

3 ton 12 SEER Heat Pump $1913 x .450 or 10 SEER $1364 x .450 with Variable Spped Air Handler (one piece) $771 x .446

Mulitply the $ by the multiplyer and that's what I would have to pay for my house. Example $771 X .446 = $343.87. See, I'd get it for cost for my own use. But we'll mark cost up 38% (I think) (I'm the fixer not the seller ) and sell to the contractor. Who will then probably mark it up for you.

So as in my first example a 94% gas plus 12 SEER A/C cost about $1250 not including installation, tax and this "electric panel" junk.

As far as the utility cost you posted. If you goto www.fhp-mfg.com and find a dealer in your area. I garranty that the equipment and installation will be the highest qoute youe gotten thus far. But, if you take your heating and cooling costs for the year and cut them to 1/3 that's where Geo-Thermal will save you money. It's very high to install but you start making that back in energy svings as soon as you turn the system on. And the system will also give you free hot water when it's running.

Hope this helps.

Chris
 
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Old 10-15-02, 04:49 PM
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Wink new AC

jarr --Look's like your just trying to get a plug in for your geothermal here
Have tried some,to much work.WE put one unit that work's from the lake on a loop and another one we put the hi side down in a mine real happy with both.Also did well to well the water is just to hard here.Cost more to keep it clean than we saved.
If im right the home was 15 years old with gas.Now I find on a home that old with a gas furnace its going to have to have a new electric entrance and a new panel for 200 amps or more that has to be put in for a new heat pump.Not just a new breaker ED
 
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Old 10-15-02, 05:19 PM
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No, not trying to push Geo. But, he's talking almost $10,000 for a system, well getting there anyway. If your going to look at that much then go Geo and get money back in energy savings.

As far as work, closed loop uses the same clean water over and over again. Much like putting energy in the ground and then taking it back out.

A gas furnace would be 100 volt and, with the blower motor draw maybe 5 amps. And electric would be 220 volt and draw 40 to (heck) 70 amps.

An air to air heat pump may draw a little more on the outside unit (15 years though - could be less amperage on the new unit) do to the defrost cycle and require electric heat to off set the defrost.

A Geo unit either puts heat in the house or takes it from the house and puts it in the ground. Uses the same amount of electricitc all year long. I only brought Geo up because it really is the smartest most economic (in the long run) thing to do. I'll do that to my house as soon as I can afford the wells.

It really boils down to what Al wants do do. Heck if he were in VaBch I'd put a system in for him and undercut everyone. And, h'ed be happy.
 
 

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