Replacing Oil / Fuel Line


  #1  
Old 12-17-02, 05:15 PM
sdudzic
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Replacing Oil / Fuel Line

I will be replacing the oil line on my furnace in about a week and I need to know if, once I have the line attached to the oil tank and pump inlet, that all I need to do is open up the bleeder nozel (on the pump) and keep reseting the furnace until the fuel begins to flow. Would doing this hurt the pump in any way, if so what is the recommendation on priming the furnace.

Additional Technical Notes:
Location of oil tank- Garage
Oil line will be run across the ceiling of the garage to the furnace room.
The line will consist of 70 feet of 1/2" coated copper flex tube
The pump is a Carlin 99FRD & EZ-66


Thank you for your help!

Steve
 
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Old 12-17-02, 06:54 PM
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If there is lift involved where the oil line goes higher than the top of the oil tank, you will need to revise your plans. Even if it comes down again on the other side of the room. you will need to run 2 lines to get the job done. Unless you are installing an oil deaerator at the burner, you will have grief forever while trying to remove the air from that system. It will be IMPOSSIBLE to get all the air out of that line. You will have intermittent lock outs and have to bleed the pump regularly to get the burner back on. Run a second line and get a bypass plug for your fuel pump. It goes from the bottom on the port toward the front. It is marked return. You take the plug out, insert the bypass plug up inside and put a fitting in to connect the return line back to the oil tank. Get a bushing for the top of your tank and put the line in there. What that does is let the pump constantly send air back to the tank instead of having it leave you without heat. You might consider running 3/8" od tube too. It would be adequate for your application and is easier to work with. Don't use compression fittings either. They are vacuum leakers.

In answer to your other question, if you run 2 lines all you have to do to bleed it is press the reset a few times. If there is oil in the pump you will not harm the pump unless you run it for 15 minutes straight or something really excessive.

Good luck.
 
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Old 12-18-02, 11:12 AM
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Oil pumps

Im with KField: two stage the pump and run two 3/8 line's copper
and use only sae flare fittings. ED
 
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Old 12-18-02, 06:29 PM
sdudzic
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Thanks for your reply! I really appreciated it. If you don't mind I have a couple more inquiries.

1) I was quoted by my oil company $890 to install the two new lines. Is this accurate? Considering I have never installed an oil line or worked on a furnace (but I am handy, just a first-time homeowner), should I have them do it or should I buy all the tools and materials and do it myself?

2) The return on the pump is also marked as the bleeder on my pump and currently has the bleed attachment on it. Is this where I would install the bypass plug and run the return line?

3) Is this project as simple as running the line, attaching the flare fittings, connecting to the pump/tank and hitting reset a few times. If not, what are some things I should look out for?
 
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Old 12-18-02, 07:45 PM
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$890 is unrealistic. You said 70 feet. Figure $1.00/ft. for the coated 3/8 od copper. It comes in 100 foot rolls so you have $200 there. Another $10 for flare fittings and a bypass plug for your fuel pump. $6.00 max. for a 2 X 1 and 1 X 3/8 black bushing for the top of your fuel tank. $2.00 for clamps and screws. You could buy a step ladder, screw gun, flaring tool, pipe wrench, etc. etc., and still have money left over. It should take you about 2 hours if you are handy with a cutter and flaring tool. Be sure to ream the tubing before flaring it. Leave no burr at all on the inside. Be gentle with the cutter, that is where the burr comes from. Your flares should be smooth and with no splits around the edge and no burr smashed into the face of it. If they look good they will not leak.

As for your other statement about the bleed port on your pump. You are not correct. If your pump model is Suntec A2VA7116 the bleed port faces front and down at a 45 degree angle. The return port faces the floor just behind the bleed port. Once you take out the plug in the return port, insert the bypass plug on the hex wrench. Put a 1/4 flare ell in that port facing to the left. You will need to partially remove the pump to do this as the fitting will hit the burner housing if you don't. If you have a webster pump or any other questions, lets hash them out before you start the project.
 
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Old 12-19-02, 04:36 PM
sdudzic
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Ok, I found the other noozle for the return. The label on the pump mislead me a little. I think I know what needs to be done now, but just to be sure... I have set up a web page outlining my plan of action, as well as images and a diagram of my pump (sorry I am a programmer by trade and I like to have everything pretty well planned out prior to starting). The page is at http://www.dudzic.com/pump/pump.html. I would appreciate it if you can take a look and make sure I am on target. Thanks again for your help!

http://www.dudzic.com/pump/pump.html
 
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Old 12-19-02, 06:21 PM
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I like the web page, it simplifies things quite a bit. First off, you have a Danfoss pump and the bypass procedure is different. All you have to do is remove the plug in the return port. It is a special plug with an actuator on the end to do the job. You will see what I mean when you pull it out, You no longer need a bleeder if you are connected to a two pipe system. The bled oil/air mix goes back to your tank. Use the tapping on the bottom of your tank for the supply. You could take the supply from one side of the duplex bushing, but I recommend taking fuel right from the bottom of your tank. That way if you ever get any water at all in the tank, you will get it out of the tank and into the filter immediately. Not after it rusts a hole in the tank. The return should go to within 6 inches of the tank bottom. That is what the pump manufacturers recommend. Otherwise, your description was correct. Press the reset and wait for a flame.
 
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Old 12-29-02, 02:44 PM
sdudzic
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Return Fitting

KField, I finally got around to running the line and I have all the connections attached. I have one more question about the return line connection. Once I remove the existing plug in the return port, and put in the "L" pipe, will that automatically make the pump a two-pipe system? If so, good, if not what else would I need to do. Also, is there a way to tell if the return line is working properly? My initial plan is to connect the return line first and make sure it is working. And then connect the new feed line. Thank you for all your help! Hopefully, by the end of this week I will be all set.
 
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Old 12-29-02, 03:06 PM
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Your plan is a good one. The plug that you removed from the return port on the pump should have a long shoulder machined on it. If it does, you do not need to do anything else. It automatically opens the bypass when you remove the plug. I don't know if Webster changed it in the last 3 or 4 years but that's how it used to be. I had trouble with those pumps spinning but not pumping so I stopped using them. The return line should work with no special setup, but once you take that plug out of the pump, you must give a return path for the oil to the tank. You will know it is working if the burner lights and stays lit after draining the pump while connecting the return.
Keep up the good work.
 
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Old 01-02-03, 04:04 AM
sdudzic
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Question RE: Return Fitting

I took out the return plug to see if there was any should or other machined parts on it but the plug was just a regular plug. Also, when I took it out, I heard a sucking sound and had to bleed the pump to get the furnace started again (opps). I assume that happened because there was no pressure preventing the feed line from sucking air and that with the return line connected it would provide enough positive pressure to prevent that correct?


I found Danfoss's website and some documentation on their pumps, of course mine was not listed, so that did not provide much help. The label of the pump says "automatic by pass", does that mean all I have to do is connect the return line? I saw that some of their other pumps required an allen screw to be inserted to convert the pump from a one pipe to a two pipe system. The good news is that everything is done, just need to connect the lines to the pump, once I have this return thing down. The specifics of the pump are as follows:

Danfoss BFPH
Code #: 071N1151
Automatic By Pass

Thanks (again)
 
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Old 01-02-03, 05:26 AM
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The sucking sound was oil draining back to the tank. No problem. If you are using the pump with just one pipe from the tank, the return plug must be in place. If you are using 2 lines, the return port must be piped back to the the tank. There is no plug to be installed in the pump. The bypass is setup by removing the plug in the return port. When both are connected you will not need to use the bleed port on the pump. The air will be sent right back to the tank.

Here is a link to your pump at Danfoss web site.

http://www.danfoss.com/Burner/DILA/DKBGPK010A422.pdf
 
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Old 01-02-03, 05:30 PM
sdudzic
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Ok, I went to homeless depot and picked up a piece of 2.5" by quarter inch diameter pipe to connect to the pump and put a 1/4" to 3/8" flare connection on it. Got everything all hooked up, turned on the power to the furnace, waited 10 minutes for it to cycle again, and it started..... sputtered.... and nothing. So I hit reset a couple of times and the pump is spinning away with no fuel. (Keep in mind I have only hooked up the return and not the new feed yet, I am still on the original feed line).

So before I fried the pump or had my heating company call (since my furnace is on a monitoring system), I put the plug back in the return port, bled the air and got it back to the way it was.

I am not sure what happened, but I think it may be better off for me to give a plumber fifty bucks and have him make the attachments. Since everything is about an inch to where it needs to be I cannot see it being much more than that. Unless you have more words of wisdom, each of which I appreciate and thank you for, I think I am gonna stop while I am ahead.

Thanks!

P.S. If you need any help with the internet, I would be more than happy to return the favor.
 
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Old 01-02-03, 08:20 PM
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The only thing I can think of is that since your pump has been in service for a few years, the automatic bypass valve may have stuck. Have you put the original plug back in the return port? I hope so because if the bypass plug is removed and the pipe is not open back to the tank, you will blow the seal out of the pump and it will be no good. Next time you connect the return pipe, run the pump and tap on it to try to dislodge the bypass valve. If you don't want to have to wait after a lockout, you can put a jumper on the safety control terminals labeled F. The T is thermostat and F is cad cell. It won't start with the jumper on so start it and before it times out, jump the F terminals and you can run it for 3 or 4 minutes if you need to. You don't have to worry about burning up the pump in 3 or 4 minutes.

If it were mine, before I would pay $50 to have someone tell me my pump had a problem and needed to be replaced, I'd spend $50 on a Suntec pump and then you have a good pump to boot. You did everything a tech would do and if you don't get e sharp one, they will just condemn the pump and sell you a new one.

You could change that pump yourself and use the regular bypass plug.

Did you look at that web site. It looked like your pump and the model number matched. You are sure that the port you are using is the return, right? I don't want to doubt you but you said the plug didn't look special at all and I know the port that plugs the return has a little extension on it to open the bypass inside the pump. It is the port with the arrow pointing away from the pump. Bottom port closest to you. The other bottom port is another inlet not a return. There is only 1 return but 2 inlets.
 
 

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