Heat pump doesn't cool.

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  #1  
Old 06-10-03, 07:17 AM
paladin_knight
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Unhappy Heat pump doesn't cool.

One of my two heat pumps has stopped cooling. It may cool sometimes and not others.
The unit is a Coleman EVCON D.E.S. X11 and was probably installed when house was built, about 11 years ago. Part of the unit sits on a concrete pad, outside, and part is in the attic.
The large line is not cool and has no condensation. The outside fan usually goes on 2 or 3 minutes after the inside fan. The compressor seems to be running, since I can hear the somewhat high-pitched tone, with a bit of a buzz sound. That sound comes from one end of the outside unit at one end and is not the fan motor. The sound is identical to the other unit, which is working fine.
Sometimes the inside fan kicks on, but the outside does nothing until I cycle the thermostat off for a few minutes. Any ideas?
 
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  #2  
Old 06-10-03, 10:25 AM
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could be a few things

my first thought is to check the refrigerant level. if the components are running (indoor fan, outdoor fan and compressor), then i could generally rule out an electrical
problem. check both coils, filter and blower wheel for
obstructions/dirt buildup, but i think it is a refrigerant
problem.
 
  #3  
Old 06-10-03, 11:30 AM
paladin_knight
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OK, I'll call a serviceman. (Can't do that myself!)

Thanks much.
 
  #4  
Old 06-11-03, 11:53 AM
paladin_knight
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Smile

Yep, refrigerant gone. It took 8 lbs of freon.

The little valve (like an auto tire valve) on the small tube side was slowly leaking.

Thanks again.


P_K
 
  #5  
Old 06-11-03, 12:04 PM
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Get ready...

Prepare for a return engagement...Rarely is the problem a leak on the schraeder valve because it has a secondary seal on the valve cap UNLESS it was off or missing or very loose. If the system pulled down into a vacuum, he should have replaced the filter dryer. If he comes back, have him do that; ALSO, install a low pressure control if you don't have one...This will shut down the compressor BEFORE it has the chance to pull in contaminates or non-condenseables.
 
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Old 06-11-03, 05:44 PM
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Talking my dos centavos

8 lbs is probably the entire charge. the "loose schrader valves" excuse is only correct sometimes, other times it is an excuse to "gas and go". was there any oil evident on or around where the schrader valves are, are there any caps on them? when did someone last check the refrigerant? at 11 yrs old, i would look at the evap coil first if there was no oil at the valve ports.
 
  #7  
Old 06-12-03, 12:31 PM
candlelite5
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Similar problem

We also are having an AC problem. We have a heat pump and I do not personally know very much about it, it is about 10 years old, the heat is working fine but the air conditioning is just not working. I wouldn't be able to do anything myself because I have very little knowledge of the unit but I was just wondering how much it cost you to have your unit serviced and fixed? Anyone have any ideas how much this type of problem costs? Thank you!
 
  #8  
Old 06-12-03, 12:32 PM
candlelite5
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Oh yeah...

Just thought I would mention that last year it worked just fine, thanks!
 
  #9  
Old 06-13-03, 07:23 PM
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Unhappy Guess What????

Your heat pump wasn't working during the winter either....Your Electric bill was higher than it usually is also (kilowatt wise)....It's because during a call for heat the electric elements heated the house. If the AC doesn't cool, the heat doesn't work either. Call a tech to find the leak...fix it and THEN charge it...tell him you want to see the leak with the bubbles solution...Its just like blowing bubbles stuff when you were a kid...real small leaks will foam up with simple green...
 
  #10  
Old 06-13-03, 10:46 PM
candlelite5
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Thank you for the information, I will definitely call someone a.s.a.p. Our electric bills have been climbing and climbing over the past few years and we simply assumed that we have been using more electricity, had harsher winters, need new windows, etc. I usually have the system serviced every year but I haven't gotten to it in almost two and a half years so I bet you are completely right. Now just to find someone to do a good job at a fair price, definitely not easy to find but no matter what it will save money on the electric bill once it is all fixed up.
 
  #11  
Old 06-17-03, 06:23 PM
candlelite5
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Question

Hi again, I am just wondering if anyone out there can help me, I called a repairman and he fixed the problem but it seems to me it cost an awful lot and I have a feeling I got ripped off. Does anyone have any idea how much it should be for freon and a boost kit for a heat pump? I also bought the service agreement in case anything happens in the future but I thought it would be less for the kit and the freon, it took them about a half an hour to do all the work. Thanks and I appreciate any info anyone can provide.
 
  #12  
Old 06-17-03, 07:01 PM
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We just paid $60 for the service call, and $20 a lb for freon
 
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Old 06-17-03, 07:02 PM
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Thumbs down candlelite5

This querry was from paladin_knight...If you have a question, don't contaminate the train of thought with a question of your own...Start your own question, and let the others try help resolve your problem!
 
  #14  
Old 06-17-03, 07:36 PM
paladin_knight
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Cool Follow-up from original thread post.

Hello y'all. As hvac01453 said "Prepare for a return engagement..." Yes. The 2nd (and senior) techie come out today for a replay. The first freon lasted only one day. This guy seemed to know what to do. He did a thourough test of all of the joints with detergent spray and some sort of freon detector machine. He found a leak in the other schraeder valve. He also tested the attic expansion unit for leaks with the freon detector machine. 8 more pounds of freon. Still working well after 10 hours of 85 degree heat.

Cost. I paid $65 for the first visit and $47.50 for 8.9 lbs of freon for the first visit. (2nd visit is yet to be known, but the $107.50 from failed attempt will be applied to the second visit.) My freon seems to be more like $5-6 per pound.

Hopefully the 2 schraeder valves actually ARE the problem.
Luck to all. And another thank you to hvac01453, who has been 100% correct with my problems.

P_K
 
  #15  
Old 06-19-03, 05:56 PM
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Schraeders

Did you actually see the bubbles leak out and give a quick pronounced bubble immediately? If so, the CORE should have been replaced, a new schraeder cap WITH O RING. The schraeder core is easily replaced with a special tool that allows us to do this without having to recover or loose any refrigerant. I think you will find the leak in the air handler. Have a little patience Leaks can be a real bear to locate. If this leaks again have him recover the gas in a clean container put the vacuum pump on for 20 minutes and charge the system with 120 PSI of dry nitrogen only. Equalize the pressure on both side and front seat the piercing valves on the condensing unit. Leave it for two days. when he comes back have him precharge his gauges to hold 120 psi and then connect his hoses. If there is a pressure drop , its not in the condenser, it will have to be in the line set. If there is no drop, then open the piercing valves to see if the pressure drops, if it does the leak is in the condenser. This process will eliminate some time. The easiest and quickest way is to use the dye by Spectroline and the UV light. If it leaks out it will show a stain bigtime. Drawback is the shot of dye is about $50.00 our cost! Some guys I know add some 22 and pump it up to 300PSI and use the leak detector. On the air handler keep the unit fan off for a few hours and sniff the condensate pan. The leak is heavier than air and will collect there. Some leaks only occur under operation, almost impossible to find. Good luck, I think he'll be back...not a bad price on the R22 though.
 
  #16  
Old 06-19-03, 06:00 PM
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addendum

The leak could be in the line set OR the air handler...I sholud proof read my stuff better...sorry! Also the gas he recovers can be put back in when he's done...
 
  #17  
Old 06-22-03, 08:32 AM
paladin_knight
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One more time!

Yep, hvac01453 is again correct. Third call about A/C failure. First the technician created full vacuum (system was empty of freon) and waited a while. Pressure remained negative at atmosphereic level.

Then he put in 300 psi nitrogen and went to the air handler. Loud hissing noise from evaporator section. Verified by using a long propane grill lighter (turned into a mini-torch).

Was unable to get close to the leak, so a new evaporator will be ordered on Monday.

It turns out that these guys working on my problem are working on direct orders from my insurance company ( I pay only for the first call and for disposal of the evaporator.)

They were instructed to do a "gas & go", then a simple leak detection try, and then finally the more involved detection.

No dye was used (probably would be authorized next time, I guess, if the evaporator does not solve problem).


P_K
 
  #18  
Old 06-23-03, 02:52 PM
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Evaporator coil

Don't let them walk off with your copper/aluminum coil, its worth probly $10-15.00 at the metal scrap yard, provided yo cut all the steel parts off of the ends...and bring in only the coil...
 
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