staybrite or sillfoss

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Old 08-01-03, 10:01 PM
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staybrite or sillfoss

Would all you HVAC techs please comment on the pros and cons of using staybrite 8 as opposed to sillfoss for soldering linesets to the coil inside and the condenser.I just seem to have a difficult time with the sillfoss.have to redo the joints a second time,so that they will hold up to a pressure testI have much better luck with the staybrite the first time,just want to make sure it will hold up.Also,how much nitrogen pressure do you pump the system to?Is 200# too much?Thanks very much for any comments,Very much appreciated.
 
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Old 08-02-03, 11:42 AM
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A/C

I have always Used sill-foss 15. Sounds like you dont clean the copper pipe and the fittings good. Also with copper to copper you dont have to use a flux. Is the torch you have big enough to get the copper up to cherry red when you put the 15 on it?We use a small tip welding torch or a good turbo torch.

As for pressure , a R-22 could hit over 300psi there gauges are for 250psi low and 500psi high and a R-410a if you look at the gauges they have for it the the low side goes to 500psi and the high side goes to 800 psi. ED
 
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Old 08-02-03, 05:01 PM
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silphos for sure

keep these things in mind

solder will run toward the heat, so have your flame where it will pull the solder into the joint

heat the copper well before attempting to apply the solder. there is a temp difference where the solder melts and runs.

be sure you have enough heat for sure. i do not use mapp gas over 3/4 inch, be sure to check your operating pressures on oxy/acty, 7 or so for acty, do not remember oxy psi setting. i run my regulator all the way up on my btank.
 
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Old 08-02-03, 06:50 PM
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Thanks for the replies.I was taught that with the sillfoss you didnt have to clean the fittings as long as they were new copper
pipe and fittings.With the staybrite I always cleaned them good,that is maybe my problem huh?Will shine them up next time,will see how it comes out.
 
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Old 08-03-03, 07:59 AM
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clean fittings

is important, however, many guys i have seen do not clean them at all. the phos in silphos will do the cleaning.
 
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Old 08-03-03, 08:18 AM
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It's all a matter of degree.

If I put together a system with a few hundred pounds of refrigerant, the time it takes to clean a joint is a small price to pay for a joint you can have confidence in.
On bigger fittings you can see the difference cleaning makes by how evenly the filler sucks into the joint.
Same would hold true for smaller pipe.
 
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Old 08-03-03, 06:23 PM
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Thanks again for the replies.One more guestion, if I may.I have a oxy/actylene set.What should the regulators be set at for best results? sometimes the joints look good,sometimes real carboned up.I know that it must be a matter of proper regulator settings.Thanks for the help.I really do appreciate it.
 
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Old 08-04-03, 11:52 AM
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weld

It sounds more to me with the ox/weld set up You dont set a good tip flame like I say is it hard are a soft flame . What tip do you use for the sil 15 on copper? Sounds like you dont get in and get out with the heat. Some books say the acetylene should be set for the # of the tip like a #2 tip 2 lb on the acetylene. The oxygen well thats like what are going to do . If its cutting I set the oxy high and a hard flame this way the slag will chip off with less work.

Maybe GregH can be a better explainer here than me ED
 
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Old 08-04-03, 01:37 PM
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I can explain it different, not better.

I only set the regulator pressure enough to give the desired flame for the tip I'm using.
Normally 5psi-acytylene and 10 psi -oxygen.
For brazing a carbonizing flame works best.
Shop class welding info:

You would start by lighting the acetylene and increasing the flame untill the smoke dissappears.
A neutral flame is one where the feather is pulled back by increasing the oxy just untill the feather meets the main flame. (5000 deg f)
A carbonizing flame is where the feather is longer than the main flame. From 1/4" to 1 1/2" past main flame usually works for me. (4700 deg F.) This is best for silfoss brazing.
An oxydizing flame is one where you reduce the size of the flame up to a neutral flame and then add a bit of oxygen to cause the flame to slightly shrink. (5300 deg F.) This would be a hard flame.
 
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Old 08-04-03, 05:02 PM
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turbo torch

is the standard in the industry. I started with a Presto lite. The tips stunk! The best they had, was the swirl jet, too expensive and still not as good as the Torbo Torch, if begrudgedly got the Turbo Torch and never looked back. Oxy/acetelene is Ok when you are needing lots of heat quickly. You can easily blow through copper pipe with it, not meaning to.
Silfos is used on the high side and staybrite on the low side. silfos needs no cleanup or flux, staybrite does, you can't SEE if you have a seal alround with staybrite in all cases, silfos you can make a good 45 fillet to insure your covered, staybrire doesn't burn the paint off anything, stick will...and stick is stronger...I just like the flow better. If your comfortable with staybrite....use it, if you have lousy fitting pipe use Bridge-it...the nickel will span the gaps. I actually closed a 3/8" open tube end with Bridge-it.
And.......My uncles favorite reason. It's 95% the tensile strength of 95/5, and much cheaper.
 
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Old 08-04-03, 10:31 PM
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Thanks to all of you.The info is very much appreciated and very usefull.
 
 

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