Furnace ignition problem

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  #1  
Old 10-05-03, 09:00 AM
dxbeck
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Furnace ignition problem

I have a Coleman Evcon DES 80 natural Gas Furnace (model BGU07512A, serial # 961078351) that wont ignite at the beginning of every cold season. Everything seems to be working properly. The vent fan comes on when the thermostat calls for heat. The hot surface ignitor comes on and attempts to light the burners 3 times. I have confirmed there is power going to the gas valve when it is time for it to open. I also here it click. In the past, it has eventually works after lowering the thermostat and then raising it 12 or so times. After the initial successful lighting of the burners, it has no problem lighting after that until it sits up over the summer not being used. I wonder if natural gas can clog up the electronic gas valve over time, or if the gas valve itself needs replacing. It is a Robert Shaw part 7222DER. Any advice is appreciated.

Steve in Houston
 
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  #2  
Old 10-05-03, 08:57 PM
ServiceGrunt
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You really need to have a pro come over and start it up for the first time next year. Should be easy for him to locate your problem. Chances are, all you have is spider webs covering up your burner orfices or gas valve outlet. Might take you several tries to blow thru the web the first time you fire it up. I`d have someone come and look at it anyway.
 
  #3  
Old 11-09-03, 11:19 PM
dxbeck
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furnace ignition update

After about 50 attempts in three weeks time to fire up the furnace, it finally came on and I haven't had any problems with it since. At the begginning of every cold season, it has this problem with the initial lighting of the furnace. After it finally lights for the first time, it doesn't have any more problems. I wonder what is causing it to do this. I checked for dirt or spider webs in the orifaces to the burner and they were clean. The reason I don't like to call a "professional" is because around here they always want to take you for a ride. When I had one of them come out to look at it last year they said it was definitely the board, and they wanted $500 to replace it. I looked up this board on the web and priced it for about $100. I think $400 labor to snap in a board is highway robbery. Plus, I don't even think the board is at fault here. It's hard to find honest pros.

Steve in Houston
 
  #4  
Old 01-01-07, 09:46 PM
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Evcon

I hope you still check this, Steve. I wanted to let you know that I have the same furnace and have trouble with it every year. if you could send me your email addy we could hit each other up for info on this piece of crapo we are stuck with. i have had to replace the hot surface igniter 3 times now since 1998 (have to buy one in the morning, just found out). we may be able to share valuabel info.
 

Last edited by DIYaddict; 01-01-07 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Email address removed/This is for your protection and to prevent your email from being filled with spam.
  #5  
Old 01-20-07, 07:32 PM
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Furnace ignition problem

dxbeck
Steve, you probably saved me hundreds of $ (can), I also have a Coleman Evcon DES 80 that has the EXACT same problem. Two years ago during a snap cold weather( at which time the heat pump was in used), I decided to put the system on "emergency heat", but you guessed it, the furnace would'nt come on. Called a "pro" who changed the Hot Surface Igniter , as well as the Ignition Module. $500$ later, I had heat.
Today, after reading your post, I tried 6 times and hold and behold, I had heat! Will wait a few days and see how it behaves. BTW I did check the orifices for spider webs, and saw nothing. I just figure that after using the Heat pump as air conditioning, some condensation was produced and perhaps melted several times and introduced air into the gaz valve.
 
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Old 11-23-08, 07:21 PM
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Unhappy Coleman Evcon D.E.S. 80 furnace

Hello, I am new at this. I have had this furnace for about 15 years. (model # 2875E966, serial # 099132940) It worked perfect the first year. The next year it had problems lighting. The installer came and 'fixed' it; he said it was the igniter. OK. The next year, I had the same problem. He came and replaced the same part again. The third year, the same crap again! I quit calling him after that. Every year I have the same problem. Sometimes it will take me hours to get the thing to light. After it starts, I might not have any trouble for a couple of weeks. Sometimes, it will do the same thing the next time it comes on. This has an electronic ignition. If it does not light the first time it tries, then it just stays 'running' all day until you turn it off and try again.
When the thermostat tells it to turn on, you hear the thing start running and the furnace will feel warm. Then about a minute later, it will click like it is trying to light. If it does not light, you will hear a hissing type sound like it is blowing itself out. The furnace will continue to 'run' until you turn it off. Then you have to recycle it to start the procedure all over again. I have come home from work and the house is cold but the furnace is running, waiting for the signal to light. The blower motor is not running, but something is inside. It will continue to do this until you shut it off. Someone told me before to look for a circuit board with some LEDs. There is no such board that I can find. I have probably repeated myself about certain things, but this is rediculous! This should not have the same problem continuously. I also heard that if you have burning candles or use hair spray, that this will clog the igniter. If that is true, then almost everybody in the world that has electronic igniters would not have their furnaces working. I am going crazy over this crap. Any help? William G.
 

Last edited by WillG72; 11-23-08 at 07:32 PM. Reason: missed some info
  #7  
Old 11-24-08, 08:00 PM
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Just saw your E-Mail in my IN box.Your gas valve is probably the problem...mine was working erratically before it failed.My tech replaced the faulty gas valve for a ROBERTSHAW,720-079 UNIVERSAL ELECTRONIC IGNITION GAS VALVE UNI-KIT.Regards
 
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Old 11-25-08, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WillG72 View Post
Hello, I am new at this. I have had this furnace for about 15 years. (model # 2875E966, serial # 099132940) It worked perfect the first year. The next year it had problems lighting. The installer came and 'fixed' it; he said it was the igniter. OK. The next year, I had the same problem. He came and replaced the same part again. The third year, the same crap again! I quit calling him after that. Every year I have the same problem. Sometimes it will take me hours to get the thing to light. After it starts, I might not have any trouble for a couple of weeks. Sometimes, it will do the same thing the next time it comes on. This has an electronic ignition. If it does not light the first time it tries, then it just stays 'running' all day until you turn it off and try again.
When the thermostat tells it to turn on, you hear the thing start running and the furnace will feel warm. Then about a minute later, it will click like it is trying to light. If it does not light, you will hear a hissing type sound like it is blowing itself out. The furnace will continue to 'run' until you turn it off. Then you have to recycle it to start the procedure all over again. I have come home from work and the house is cold but the furnace is running, waiting for the signal to light. The blower motor is not running, but something is inside. It will continue to do this until you shut it off. Someone told me before to look for a circuit board with some LEDs. There is no such board that I can find. I have probably repeated myself about certain things, but this is rediculous! This should not have the same problem continuously. I also heard that if you have burning candles or use hair spray, that this will clog the igniter. If that is true, then almost everybody in the world that has electronic igniters would not have their furnaces working. I am going crazy over this crap. Any help? William G.
But if your ignitor fixed the problem each time the furnace guy came out, that could be what the problem was! If not, you need to tell us if his repairs did not work right, in between those replacement times.

Obviousdly you are upset due to the cost. I buy these parts reasonable and can install in minutes for landlords at not that much cost. You probably would not be upset if I was the one changing it every year.

There is one furnace we had (the house was sold this year) that it's ignitor went out once a year. One year it went out after 364 days. I got a new one for free under 1 year warrantee.

If a furnace guy comes out, changes the ignitor, and suddenly it works again for another year, no problems, it is not the gas valve. Be careful about simply charging out parts on a hope and a prayer.

There are common things that happen to these newer furnaces. And any sharp furnace guy should be able to test certain things, and look at certain things, and clean certain things. There are only a relative few things that can go wrong, especailly if certain functions of the furnace begins. Each of which can be thought out and looked into or possibly dismissed. You can help yourself and the furnace man in the future if you familiarize yourself with the proper sequencing of your furnace - what everything does in it's set order, so that you can learn for the future to DIY, and/or tell a furnace guy what it did NOT do, when you catch it malfunctioning.
 
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Old 11-27-08, 05:11 AM
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deleted (wrong message/wrong place)
 

Last edited by WillG72; 11-27-08 at 05:43 AM.
  #10  
Old 11-27-08, 05:20 AM
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Coleman Evcon D.E.S. 80 Furnace-sequence of events

Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
But if your ignitor fixed the problem each time the furnace guy came out, that could be what the problem was! If not, you need to tell us if his repairs did not work right, in between those replacement times.

Obviousdly you are upset due to the cost. I buy these parts reasonable and can install in minutes for landlords at not that much cost. You probably would not be upset if I was the one changing it every year.

There is one furnace we had (the house was sold this year) that it's ignitor went out once a year. One year it went out after 364 days. I got a new one for free under 1 year warrantee.

If a furnace guy comes out, changes the ignitor, and suddenly it works again for another year, no problems, it is not the gas valve. Be careful about simply charging out parts on a hope and a prayer.

There are common things that happen to these newer furnaces. And any sharp furnace guy should be able to test certain things, and look at certain things, and clean certain things. There are only a relative few things that can go wrong, especailly if certain functions of the furnace begins. Each of which can be thought out and looked into or possibly dismissed. You can help yourself and the furnace man in the future if you familiarize yourself with the proper sequencing of your furnace - what everything does in it's set order, so that you can learn for the future to DIY, and/or tell a furnace guy what it did NOT do, when you catch it malfunctioning.
Thanks for the reply. I assumed it was the igniter. At least I think that was what he told me. The first 2 times he replaced a part, he only charged me $50-$60. I suppose that was because of the warranty. Anyway, when the part was replaced, sometimes it still would not work correctly, but it would operate more often. These are the sequence of events for the furnace: 1st-a small motor comes on, and the vent (exhaust) pipe starts getting hot right above it. (A pre-heat?) 2nd-about 30 seconds later you hear a loud click. (I suppose this is the igniter?) 3rd-after the first click, if there is no problem, then about 90 seconds later the blower motor comes on and it is running. Now, if after the first click, if it does not light, there is a short hiss sound about 1 or 2 seconds later and the furnace stays doing what it did in the first step except the vent pipe cools off and the little motor stays running till it is shut off or the process is recycled to start over again.
 

Last edited by WillG72; 11-27-08 at 05:51 AM.
  #11  
Old 11-27-08, 08:15 AM
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Its the gas valve! SAME FURNACE SAME PROBLEMS.Please read my above post
 
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Old 11-28-08, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WillG72 View Post
...., it will click like it is trying to light. If it does not light, you will hear a hissing type sound like it is blowing itself out.
It is normal for failed ignition to still allow gas to come out the gas valve for about 4 seconds and then quit. Some furnaces can make quite a loud hiss as the gas is coming out.

The reason yo hear this hiss after it failed to light, ratehr than at the saem tuime, is that first there may be a click for the ignitor to glow. But it takes time for the ignitor to glow up to full hotness. It is only AFTER that time has gone by that the gas valve opens! And that be what might be throwing you off.

If you have a natural gas meter outside, go out and look, before and after, at the 1/4 or 1/2 foot dial on the meter and tell us if, and how far, the dial moved, and how long it took to get there. Also look on the furnace name plate inside the furnace, usually found in the large compartment on the inside side of the furnace, and tell us what the input btu rating is.

I just worked on a furnace today that hissed loud and did not ignite because the ignitor was burned out. A new one fixed it.

A person really needs to be careful diagnosing stuff, and not simply claim it may be some expensive part due to certain symptoms, as often same type symptoms can occur with some other cheap part in the furnace. I do not like to feel responsible for steering someone to buy an expensive part unless I am quite certain all the lesser parts have been diagnosed.
 
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