Moving a gas pipe

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  #1  
Old 10-18-03, 10:06 AM
basementboy
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Moving a gas pipe

I'm finishing off the basement and have a problem with the current placement of the gas pipe feed. Coming from the meter the feed runs along a joist above the loist line and then elbows down below the joist line and runs accross many joists to where is elbows over to the furnace and splits to the other appliances.

Question: What is the best way to eliminate the pipe accross the joists as I want to sheet rock the ceiling and have very limited ceiling height. Can I take it over to the basement wall and through the outer wall studs then back up to where the current furnace feed takes off? This would eliminate the pipe from the ceiling which is what I want, but I'm unsure if there are problems I'm not thinking about with this solution.

Check out the picture at http://family.teemaster.com/Basement...pe_project.htm

Any suggestions or other good ideas would be most appreciated.

Thanks
 
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Old 10-18-03, 10:31 AM
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Question Gas line

I think I would check and see what code for this is where you live.
Still dont think you want to use the round ceilings registers for in the basement rooms that far north .Or get the ones you can adjust for heat down and ac out on the ceiling ED
 

Last edited by Ed Imeduc; 10-18-03 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 10-18-03, 09:29 PM
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I am just going to comment on the heating part, I agree with Ed, The round ones are just going to spread the air across the ceiling.. Get the 2 1/2 by 12 registor/boot..

Also, I noticed you are (or already?) plan the 6" pipe, and "T" into it .. You are not going to gain anything by having two vents on 1-6" pipe.. If you want more heat/air to those room. run another set of 6" pipe. So another word, 2-6" pipe for the bedroom, and office.


I didn't see any return for the basement? Is that planned? I would put one in the office, and one in the bedroom, towords the floor..
 
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Old 10-19-03, 01:07 AM
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This should be OK but you do need to double check with your local codes to make sure this is allowed.

The main thing you need to do is to make sure that the gas flow of the modified gas line is still valid. This means that you will need to perform gas flow calculations for all the appliances in your house to make sure that when all of them are running at full capacity, the operating pressure/pressure drop at each appliance still is in a valid range (typically 5 – 6” WC operating pressure) with the new layout. You can either use the gas flow formula or the gas flow tables from the Gas Code book. I usually use an MS Excel spreadsheet with the gas flow formula to do this when I have installed or added gas lines and appliances. You will also need to know if you have a high pressure or low pressure gas system. The formula is different for the two cases. Of course if you are planning to do the work yourself you will need a manometer and a gas leak detector at the very least.

If you don’t feel confident about doing this yourself get a Gas Technician or a qualified plumber to do this for you.
 
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Old 10-19-03, 09:03 AM
basementboy
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Thanks Rav12, this is good information,

I'm perfectly comfortable doing the work myself. Where can I get a manometer and a gas-leak deterctor? Do they carry them at rental centers or do I need to purchase?

As for the flow issue, is it as simple as replacing the existing pipe with the same diameter of pipe or is there much more involved? (my real ignorance showing through here).
 
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Old 10-19-03, 10:05 AM
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PIPES

Johnstone supply will have the manometer $24 list. For leak soap will do most of the time.
Look in the book for the size of pipe you need .How many Btu's how far and how many L's all count. With every thing in the house with gas on then set pressure with the manometer. For what they run there

Back again with Jay you cant put a T' in a 6" run and put 2 reg on the same run ED

Hows the new baby doing?
 
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Old 10-19-03, 03:59 PM
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Basementboy,

Sorry – cannot comment on whether you can rent these since I bought my own. A manometer is not too expensive depending on the model. The standard U-tube type one (using water) is much cheaper than the electronic one which is probably very accurate and is a lot more expensive ($200 upwards for a new one). I bought my one directly from Dwyer Instruments (about $20 + shipping). Gas detection is best done by an electronic one. I don’t like the leak detection fluid as they do not tend to show minute leaks. An electronic detector will sniff anything upto about 5ppm. I bought a new one online for about $130 (TIF instruments model 8800A) but you can also get a cheaper used one on places like e-bay. I would suggest you get one of these since if it is your first time doing gas lines you can make sure it is 100% leak tight. I think it is a good idea for even homeowners to have these to double check work done by contractors as well as to check for routine gas leaks.

What you are really trying to do with the gas flow calcs is to make sure that your new layout can support the gas flow for your system (i.e. a system design issue). You will need to use the manometer to measure the static gas pressure (i.e. with no appliances turned on) and then calculate the pressure at each appliance using a gas flow model for your house based on your piping layout. This will show whether your new layout will work. If it does not you have two options. You can either increase the pressure at the regulator near the meter or expand the gas line diameter or a combination of both.

If you don’t want to bother with formulas etc there are programs you can download off the net. The ones I found were not very good since they did not have all the parameters I wanted to play with and also they are time limited since the authors want you to pay for them. These may work for you. As I’m an engineer and have written software in the past (mainly for satellite stuff – ie for work) I may write a better gas flow program for the plumbers and gas techs sometime….who knows
 
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Old 10-22-03, 11:25 AM
basementboy
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What about flexible gas tubing

How 'bout this?

I was at the hardware store poking around and saw a new product which looks like the silver bullet for me. It's flexible gas tubing with all the couplings, valves, and connectors, and strike plates. Browsing through the installation manual it looks like you can go through floor joists with no problem. It looks like stainless steel tubing surrounded with a yellow plastic sheathing. It comes in rolls from 25' to 250'.

Does anyone have any experience with this and what are your thoughts on it?

Thanks in advance.

BB
 
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Old 10-22-03, 01:35 PM
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Those yellow flex will work just fine.. Just make sure you have it sized right, otherwise, you are going to get a humming sound.


My parents had that put in thier house 2 years ago to "clean" up the old pipe that was every witch way in the world!
 
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Old 10-22-03, 09:55 PM
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This is probably corrugated stainless steel piping (CSST). You will need to check your local codes to make sure it is allowed for use behind closed walls. Also you may need to oversize the tube since the ridges inside the tube slows down the gas flow due to friction. So if your gas calcs show that you need a 3/4" line you should upsize this to a 1" dia CSST pipe if you plan to use this.
 
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Old 10-23-03, 05:28 AM
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Use a CSST sizing chart. They are provided by the manufacturer. Some CSST suppliers require the buyer to have the proper card to even buy their product. (There is a factory training class on proper installation of their product to reduce "problems")

Check with local building department if you can do this work. Also talk to your insurance agent to see if home owners insurance will be still in place for fire if you perform work. Many companies require only "qualified" contractors for any gas work.
Not a big project, You are confident of your abilities, but you need to check the legalities of this project.

Good luck, more questions or problems, ask and someone will answer them.
 
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