Oil tank and oil delivery problem

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  #1  
Old 12-05-03, 06:53 PM
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Oil tank and oil delivery problem

Hi,
My parents live in a house located on top of a steep hill. The problem is that the oil companies wont deliver any oil to them since the tank (275 gal in basement) is way up there!
My question is: Can they add a 500 gal Fiberglass tank at the bottom of the hill (in-ground) and connect it to the 275 gal tank?
I was thinking of having the oil co. fill the new tank and then have some kind of pump , pump it up to the house.
I understand there is going to be some long plumbing involved, but they are pretty much at the end of their rope since no one wants to deliver to them and they are told to call someone else instead.
any help / ideas will be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Michael
 
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  #2  
Old 12-06-03, 06:48 AM
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Lightbulb Oil tank

As long as you are thinking about a new tank and all. How about just the pipe work and pump up the hill to their tank. There at the bottom of the hill the oil truck just tie in to your pump and you pump it right up ?????????????????????????? Also put in another 275 tank at the home

ED
 
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Old 12-06-03, 06:49 AM
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Michael:

I doubt very much that the local regulations would allow it.
That set-up could be considered a bulk fuel storage facility. Even if it was allowed you would need a permit and have to follow the same regs as a commercial fuel depot.
Check with your fuel dealer, he should know who to talk to.

Has this house been there for a while and how steep and far is it to the top?
 
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Old 12-06-03, 10:29 PM
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oil tank

Well,
the house has been there for about 50 yrs!
the guy they were using got tired of hauling his heavy hose up the hill so he doesnt deliver anymore. (BTW, many claim their hose wont reach)

My dad has already extended the fill pipe down the hill, and has attached a flow check at the end of it. They delivered for a while with this set up, but I guess they are thinking it is risky now and stopped. ( I think since they have to run up to hear the whistle and run down to shut it off).

If they could know when the tank is full from the bottom of the hill, then that might work. ( if my theory is right!)

I was thinking of filling the new tank first then pumping it up (controlled from inside the house to shut it off when inside tank is full) to stop the hose hauling and possibility of over fill.

If I can do with out the new tank, even better. if they can connect to my pump and I controll the fill from inside then that would work too! I just dont know what kind of pump I would use. I would imagin that it has to push and not pull the oil.

Any comments / Ideas are appreciated.
thanks
Michael

PS. Greg, the house is set back about 100 feet from the curb and the incline is about 30 degrees. ( many steps as you can imagin)
 

Last edited by Michael7278; 12-07-03 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 12-07-03, 05:03 AM
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Micheal,

How old is the furnace in the home?

If it's really old, I'd replace it with LP or Nat gas. Seem like the oil guys don't want to go out of thier way to get your dad's bussiness. So I would just forget it.. That way you don't have to worry about the extra expense of pump.. permit.. ect ect to instll the tank at the bottom of the hill.
 
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Old 12-07-03, 06:34 AM
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Jay,
The boiler is a buderous that is about 3 yrs old.
As for Gas service it is too far from the house, he was thinking about switching over when he replaced the boiler but it wasnt an option.
My dad has already piped the feed to the inside tank, so if I could find out what pump can be used to send the oil up that will do it.
thanks for the replies...
Michael
 
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Old 12-07-03, 09:01 AM
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Lightbulb Oil pumps

Ask the oil guy you have he could come up with something for pumps . You could look up Grainger and see what they have. Id look at code there first. Could rig the vent alarm to sound off louder with a big horn or a light. ED
 
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Old 12-07-03, 10:02 AM
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Lightbulb Light

Ed,
Great minds think alike!
I was thinking of a light too.
Maybe rig up a switch to the level indicator on the tank and then run the wire along the pipe to the fill head, and install a bulb there ( or two just in case one goes out ).
I will talk to the oil guy to see if that will float his boat.
thanks
Michael
 
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Old 12-07-03, 10:56 AM
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Exclamation Hold on there pardner!

Michael:

Don't even think about rigging a switch to the float unless you use an approved device designed for that purpose and have a permit to do it.

We can come up with countless ways to solve your problem but we also have told you to seek regulatory advice.

What you are proposing to do is I'm sure something that would require permits.
Both to meet environmental and building codes.

You can do anything you like though untill something happens.
No permit - no insurance.

If something does go wrong you may find Dad livin' at your place 'cause his insurance was voided or you two could be digging contaminated soil by hand and carting it away in a wheelbarrow.

Make sure you get a permit or at least find out for sure what the regs are.
 
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Old 12-07-03, 11:49 AM
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Exclamation Oil pumps

Like GregH and I said check code there.

But out of the box again. How about a set of the small walke talkes. One on at the vent pipe and the one for the driver so he can hear the vent whistle stop.

We use them all the time in condos for pulling wire and freon lines up in a 5 story or so. This lets the other guys know to pull or push ED
 
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Old 12-07-03, 03:43 PM
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I will check the codes, and make sure if I do anything I will go by the book (wouldnt want dad living with me )....the walkie talkies are also doable if the driver agrees!.

Thank you all for your input / suggestions.
Michael
 
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Old 12-07-03, 04:52 PM
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As far as two way radios go those FRS radios that you can buy everywhere are great.

I don't need them often but bought a set and they work better that the vhf radios I use to borrow.
 
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Old 12-07-03, 06:25 PM
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I would suggest adding another 275 to reduce the frequency of the fills. Also the only idea that I have seen here that is worthwhile is a `float switch in the tank. All you need to get a safe oil compatible switch in the tank is to use the sealed magnetic reed switch with the float that is compatible with oil. The switch is completely sealed in a tube with a 1/4" pipe thread on it and a long enough wire to allow you to extend the tube. If you get a 2 X 1/2 duplex bushing and put a 1/2 X 1/4 bushing in the bottom, you can put any length pipe nipple you want and a coupling to get the switch to trigger at a safe level. Probably a 5" air space would be adequate. Then on the top of the bushing, you can use any 1/2" electrical connector that will prevent chafing of your wire. The other opening in the bushing gets plugged. It can be installed in any unused tapping on the tank. The rest is up to you but my suggestion is to have the circuit open when the tank is full. That way they would only fill until the light goes off. If there is ever a power outage or your bulb burns out, they would know not to fill if there is no light. I have an account that I use this method on and all I have is a pair of wires that come out to the end of the fill pipe and I use a flashlight with a continuity tester built in and clip the leads on the wires and fill until the light goes out. I have been doing that for about 18 years and the switch has never failed and the system works on 3 volts so no fear of high voltage in the tank.

The only part of your situation that I don't like is the uphill fill. If you used a check valve made for this type of application, I suppose there would not be much risk. A positive shutoff valve between the check and the fill adapter would make me feel a little better. Or perhaps one on both sides of the check in case you wanted to change it.

For what it's worth, you may find a small company that values the business of a solid customer. I have a few accounts whose fill locations require me to have a 175 foot hose on the truck and that is more than normal. However, I would never send a good account off to find another dealer because I didn't want to put a 175 foot hose on the truck.
 
  #14  
Old 12-08-03, 07:25 AM
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The more complex the fuel fill and storage system is, the greater the likelihood for system failure and fuel spills.

I think the best solution is to find an oil company that WILL deliver to the house. Having as much storage as permitted by the local authorities in the basement might mean that the tank(s) only need filling once or twice per year, and this could be donw when there is no snow or ice. If they want a 10 or 15 dollar surcharge per fill, consider offering that, too.

I would not install a separate oil tank, transfer pump, and piping in a remote location. Too much possibility for leaks and spills. If your parents end up paying for any oil spill cleanup, electric heat would end up being cheaper.
 
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Old 02-05-13, 03:46 PM
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This needs to be said

Do not attempt to install a remote fill with a check valve at the bottom of the hill. This is a violation of the National Fire Code. When (not if) the tank is accidentally overfilled or ruptured because someone made a mistake, you will likely be responsible for the cleanup cost.

It is possible to install two 275 gallon tanks in the house and reduce the number of fills. They must be installed correctly. There are specific directions provided by tank manufacturers on how to install two tanks. They must be followed to the letter. Two tanks will be a financial motivation for a delivery company to drag their hoses up to the house.
 
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