Lighting Up

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Old 01-31-06, 03:45 PM
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Lighting Up

I noticed my gas furnace (a twelve year old Armstrong) clicks when it lights up and lately, I have noticed it clicks three, four or even five times when lighting up the main burners. I took a peak in and noticed that the pilot light would light up the main burners and then the main burners would go back out and relight and go back out and the cycle repeated itself four or five times.
Are there any suggestions on anything I might be able to do or what action I should take? Thank You for any postings.
 
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Old 01-31-06, 04:54 PM
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Pilot lights

When the pilot is lighting is there a glow then the pilot or is it a spark to light the pilot? If there is a glow, you have a Honeywell SmartValve as a gas valve. There may or may not be a rod which sticks into the main burner flame, usually on the opposite end of the burners from the pilot. If your furnace has one, remove it & clean with fine steel wool or a piece of Scotch Brite.
 
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Old 01-31-06, 05:46 PM
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Thanx Grady, I am going to have a look at it. Hope that is all it is.
Thanx again.
 
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Old 02-01-06, 04:20 PM
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Problem not solved

Heh Grady, I took a look in and I can't tell how the pilot light is being lit, but there is a little stick like piece that I assume is a sensor of some sort that turns red hot by the pilot light when furnace is going and when the pilot light lights up, it feeds a horizontal bar which feeds the three main burners. Now everything seems to work okay but when the main burners light up, they almost immediately shut back down. There is a clicking sound when this occurs that I am guessing is the switch that controls the gas. Any ideas? Thank You...
 
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Old 02-01-06, 05:40 PM
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Furnace Model

If you can find the model # of the furnace & post it, I can probably find out what type of ignition & flame proving system it has.
 
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Old 02-01-06, 06:05 PM
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Model Number

Heh Grady, I found the model number and its EG6H80DC14-1A Hope this helps.
 
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Old 02-01-06, 06:19 PM
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Model Number

Sorry. I looked thru everything I have on Armstrong & could not find a number even with that type of format. Being that as it may, let's take another angle. On the gas valve should be a number probably begining with either VR or SV if they used a Honeywell valve. See if you can find that number, please.
 
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Old 02-01-06, 06:43 PM
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Valve Number

Strange, I wonder why you couldn't find the model number. Gets my suspcious of my house builder. Anyways, you are right about the number on the gas valve, it does start with VR8204H 1097 Hope you can find this one.
 
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Old 02-01-06, 07:03 PM
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Found it

OK, I found the VR8204 series gas valves. They are an intermittent pilot type of valve. Most furnaces using this type of valve have a rod on the opposite end of the burner rack from the pilot. This rod will have a porcelain insulator & probably one wire coming from it & going back to the ignition control module. The porcelain is mounted on a bracket & the rod sticks into the main burner flame. If you can find it, try removing, cleaning, & reinstalling. From what you describe, it sounds like the control does not sense the main burner is lit. That sensing is the function of the rod & control module.
 
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Old 02-02-06, 04:28 PM
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Grady, you are a good man. I found the little rod, and cleaned it the best I could, but to make sure it was rod you were talking about, I followed the wire back to the module, as you advised, and lo and behold, I found that it had worked itself somewhat loose. I pushed the wire back on securely and the furnace lit the first time and stayed on. I hope you sincerely have your just reward for such service. It was dead on and you parlayed the information accurately and very understandable for a newbie such as I.
Thanx a million, or a least a few hundred bucks worth, the price of a service call. If I knew where you were, I would, at least, send you a bottle of some fine rye. Thanx again.......
 
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Old 02-02-06, 08:26 PM
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Jimmee

Thank you for the kind words. I know, first hand, what it's like to have to pay for something that with a little good advice you could have fixed yourself & saved a good bit of cash. Your good description of the problem was a big help to me. Tell you what: Instead of sending me a bottle of fine rye, which without a doubt I would enjoy, why don't you take the significant other out to dinner or a movie & celebrate your new found knowledge.
Thanks for stopping by. If you have any other problems with things around the house, there are lots of knowledgeable people on the various boards here & all are glad to help.

Stay Warm
 
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Old 02-07-06, 05:16 PM
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Heh Grady

Heh Grady, the problem reared its ugly head once more and is it possible those little rods on the ceramic holder wear out? Or is it possible it just needs repositioning though I cannot figure out how it could of moved at all, it seemed pretty secure when I took it out to clean it.
It doesn't seem to be too difficult of a job to replace it if necessary. What are your thoughts on it.
Thanx again sir.
 
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Old 02-07-06, 05:29 PM
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Jimmee

Something I should have mentioned was to make sure the connections are clean & tight. By connections I mean where the wire plugs onto the sensor & the contol. Something else to check is the mounting bracket. Take the sensor bracket out & clean both where it mounts & the mount itself where it attaches to whatever it attaches to. Also check & clean any ground connections. If all of this fails to produce results. Make sure the rod is well into the flame. Other that these things, you may be looking at a new sensor &/or control. A good ground is absolutely needed for this type of igniton system to work properly. I can't tell you how many sensors & controls have been replaced needlessly simply because of a bad ground.
 
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Old 02-07-06, 05:36 PM
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Trying Again

I will have a look see first thing in the morning, and give it a good going over. I agree with you with all the unnecessary work that is done because of a faulty ground. You definitely sound like a man of experience and knowledge. I will post tomorrow to let you know how I make out.
 
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Old 02-08-06, 03:12 PM
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I tried

You know Grady, I took it apart again and gave everything I could touch a good cleaning and still the problem persists. The flame lights up on the main burners, and just as quickly it goes out. Can it really be the sensor because even it was working properly, it couldn't heat up that fast. I have got to wonder if it isn't the module itself. Guess I am somewhat lucky that Mr. Winter isn't too severe right now. Am I looking at calling in the cavalry, I mean some pros?
 
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Old 02-08-06, 03:14 PM
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One other thing, that rod doesn't reach into the flame like you had mentioned previously. Its about a third of an inch out. Its just too short to reach and the screw holes for the mounting bracket do not adjust one way or other.
 
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Old 02-08-06, 04:24 PM
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Jimmee

That rod does not sense heat. It is simply a conductor for an electrical current thru the flame. What ignition module are you using? I will try to find the voltage/amperage reading from the rod to the module.
 
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Old 02-08-06, 04:51 PM
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The module is a Honeywell VR 8204H 1097
 
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Old 02-08-06, 05:03 PM
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Module number

The number you gave me is for the gas valve, which may help before all is said & done, but the number I am looking for is from the box the probe hooks to.
 
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Old 02-08-06, 05:20 PM
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Sorry about that Grady, I am new at this stuff and I realize your patience. The name and number I found was "Honeywell mpls. mn 55422"
 
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Old 02-08-06, 05:39 PM
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Sorry

Honeywell is the manufacturer. The number I am looking for would probably be something like S86 or S8600, something like that.
Let me digress a bit about the "rod". Did it have a porcelain insulator & wire which plugged on or did it have a cylindrical end about 1/4" in diameter & a copper tube with a screw end which screwed into the gas valve?
 
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Old 02-08-06, 06:02 PM
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s8600c is the number and about the rod, there is two of them, neither one is copper, they are both "steel" colored, and one is used to light up the pilot light and they both have an electrical plug on. They are almost side by side attached to the same bracket for mounting purposes. There is no copper tube, other than the pilot light itself and I think its an aluminum tube.
 
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Old 02-08-06, 06:49 PM
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S8600c

Jimmee,
The S8600C is obsolete & I could find no literature about it but here is something on other S8600 controls which may be of some help. Look it over, particularly the troubleshooting, check what you can & get back to me. http://customer.honeywell.com/Techli...0s/69-0463.pdf
 
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Old 02-09-06, 05:36 PM
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Heh Grady

Hi Grady, I really appreciate that link you sent to me and I went through it and I reread all of your posts to me and I noticed that "faulty ground" came up time and time again so I went back into my furnace and took the rod back out and cleaned it again, this time I gave particular attention to the bracket and where it mounts onto the crossbeam and since the furnace has started up three times without any faults. Could this have been the problem?
Also, that number I sent you was the second one you couldn't find because of obsolence, my house is but thirteen years old, could my builder have found discontiuned hardware by chance? The reason I ask that question is because I was trying to fix my kitchen faucet and I ran across the same problem, and again when my toilet needed some parts for inside the tank, again, it was nowhere on file and was told it was a discontinued line. So I think I am having my eyes opened up. I will post again in maybe a day or two to let you know if the problem has gone for good. Until then, you have been awesome. I hope you get your just reward and I will be in touch soon. Thank you.
 
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Old 02-09-06, 05:52 PM
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Thumbs up Jimmee

It is not unusual for many parts to be discontinued. As far as the control, not to worry, there is a replacement readily available. The bad ground is a very common problem, probably only second to the dirty flame sensor. Since both exibit the same symptoms, when I remove a sensor to clean it, the grounds get cleaned too. It is such a habit I neglected to pass that along when I first told you about cleaning the sensor. Please keep me abreast of the status of the system.
 
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Old 02-10-06, 04:22 PM
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Grady

Heh Grady, I am actually starting to believe the problem has being taken care of. Its been a full day now and the furnace is consistently lighting up after the first "click". It seems apparent now that a bad ground was the problem, it just baffles me some on how the ground could have started to lose a full connection because everything seemed snug. I am pretty sure that the "faulty ground" was at the location where the sensor's bracket attached to a cross-beam.
Once again I must thank you for your patience and persistence in solving the problem. There is no question that it was you who solved the problem and I merely did physical work. Thank you again for your kind efforts.
 
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Old 02-10-06, 06:31 PM
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You're Welcome

It was my pleasure. It always makes me feel good when I can help someone thru what can be a tough problem. Should such similar symptoms crop up in the future, you will now know where to look first. Enjoy that evening out.
 
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