Heil residential gas furnace (lo-end)


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Old 03-03-06, 04:59 PM
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Heil residential gas furnace (lo-end)

Re: Heil residential gas furnace (lo-end)

Hi,

I've received some attractive informal bids from a well
respected ( BBB: 0 complaints in 3 years) shop on new
furnace, AC etc for my little home in the midwest (St. Louis,
MO).

On a very, very tight budget. The bid for Heil looks
tempting.

All I know about Heil is that they are under the ICP (United
Tech. Corp) corporate umbrella (Heil Comfortmaker Tempstar
etc.) I've never heard much of a positive nature about
Comfortmaker.

Would appreciate opinions re Heil's lo-end residential gas
furnace. How does it compare with, say, Carrier, Lennox,
etc?

Informal Bids (with 2yr labor + mnfgr's warranty):

Heil $2540
Bryant 2960
Trane 2960

Specs:

Small brick bungalow, built in 1954, std. forced air system,
800 sq. ft., weatherproof inspection in 2003, relatively
airtight.

Old eqpt.:
Carrier furnace, central AC, installed in 1985

Eqpt needed (subject to on-site inspection/bid):
Furnace: Single stage, 80% AFUE, 70K BTU
New plenum
AC : 2-TON, 10-SEER R-22
matching (per mnfgr) A-coil
Copper Line Set 50'
Misc. : Plastic condensate drain to sewer
Clean-up, haul away old eqpt., etc
Real spec-sheets (furnace, A-coil, CU)
Install instructions etc (furnace, A-coil, CU)
*** Concrete AC pad *** (likely poured by owner)
Other standard install items (to be specified, as necessary)

Existing eqpt. to be utilized:
White-Rodgers Programmable Tstat (from 1987)
120, 240 and 24 volt circuitry
All-aluminum roof flue

Any/all advice/info much appreciated. Please don't rag po'
me about lo efficiency eqpt: I've tortured over this stuff
(and my disappearing budget) for months.

Much Thanks,
Puddin'
 
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Old 03-03-06, 07:38 PM
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I was recently surprised to learn that one of our local farm and barn stores were selling Goodman furnaces over the counter. I coudn't believe it. I only thought HVAC places could sell furnaces. I am wondering what a Goodman like that costs at such a store. I am going to cal them tomorrow and find out.

I have heard Goodmans badmouthed on forums, but I don't see much difference in them than many of the others. I don't have this rash of calls to just Goodman furnaces, for example. They have been in places I do maintenance on for about 20 years. Maybe an ignitor goes out or something, but we haven't had to replace a heat exchanger or anything. Just the typical stuff.
 
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Old 03-03-06, 08:17 PM
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Puddin'

I've used a lot of Tempstar (exactly the same as Heil) over the years without problems but I've never used their bottom of the line stuff.
 
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Old 03-03-06, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Grady
I've used a lot of Tempstar (exactly the same as Heil) over the years without problems but I've never used their bottom of the line stuff.
Heil and Tempstar were separate companies year ago?

When ICP climbed in the saddle, maybe they discontinued the old Heil line
and started putting Heil tags on Tempstar? Vice-versa?

Did the Tempstar stuff you used generally look comparable (in quality, etc)
to Carrier, Lennox?

Thanks,
Puddin'

PS: I fear it's illegal to send beer thru the mails.
 
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Old 03-04-06, 05:12 AM
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Pudding_Man

The brand does not bother me as much as these factors.

1.Has a Manual J heat/cool load calc been performed? It is difficult for me to believe that a 70K(input-80%AFUE?) furnace is not oversized for 800 sq ft. Has your ductwork been inspected?

2.An 80% AFUE furnace is a mistake unless there are installation obstacles. Nat gas is no longer a value fuel for winter heating and prices will again be subject to supply/demand issues.

3.Using a nearly 20 yr old stat on a new system is questionable.

4.If price is the determining factor, then by all means check into the Goodman line. No reason not to.

5.Carefully review all warranties both manufacturer and dealer.

My opinion.
 
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Old 03-04-06, 09:44 AM
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>The brand does not bother me as much as these factors.

But you're not familiar with Heil?

>1.Has a Manual J heat/cool load calc been performed? It is
>difficult for me to believe that a 70K(input-80%AFUE?)
>furnace is not oversized for 800 sq ft. Has your ductwork
>been inspected?

Per the specs, house was weatherproofed and tested 2
years ago. No changes since then. Ductwork is fine.

>2.An 80% AFUE furnace is a mistake unless there are
>installation obstacles. Nat gas is no longer a value fuel
>for winter heating and prices will again be subject to
>supply/demand issues.

Prices have always been subject to supply/demand issues.
Nothing new.

>3.Using a nearly 20 yr old stat on a new system is
>questionable.

Do you know the stat? I wouldn't trade it for any 20
Honeywells on the market.

>4.If price is the determining factor, then by all means
>check into the Goodman line. No reason not to.

How much "cheaper" might it be (as a %)? Thing is,
local shops don't advertise Goodman. Best ranked
shop in the area carries it, but favors Lennox.
I'm not certain there's any reason -to- ask for
Goodman quotes.

>5.Carefully review all warranties both manufacturer and
>dealer.

Check. Watching like a hungry, hungry hawk.

Puddin'
 
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Old 03-04-06, 06:05 PM
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Heil

Yes, Heil & Tempstar are exactly the same. I often get equipment with both logos in the box. As far as quality compared to Carrier &/or Lennox. I can't say. Don't sell Carrier or Lennox. BTW, Carrier (United Technologies) owns ICP now & has for the last 3 or 4 years, maybe longer. There is likely little, if any, difference in a low end Carrier & a low end Heil.
Goodman: No better or worse than anything else on the market if installed right. Generally a fair bit cheaper than other brands. Of course they prefer Lennox, more profit up front & a lot of parts you can't go to Joe Blow's supply house & get (again higher profit). After recent experiences with Lennox's oil fired stuff, I wouldn't have one.
 
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Old 03-05-06, 06:59 AM
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I've been around a few Heil, and been happy with them.

Only thing I am worried about is the sizing of the equipement.

An 800 sq ft home using a 70,000 BTU heating?

You're in Mo right?

I am in Minnesota and have a 1,700 sq ft '68 home that's ok with tightness, and got a 60,000 2 stage, and it runs on 1st stage (about 42,000) most of the time.

A/C side, kind question that too.. I have 2 tons.

Down load this http://hvaccomputer.com/talkref.asp and get the hom owner's version for $50. be the best money spent if you want your equipement to last, and save money on running cost.
 
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Old 03-05-06, 10:27 AM
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>I've been around a few Heil, and been happy with them.

Thanks.

>Only thing I am worried about is the sizing of the
>equipement.
>
>An 800 sq ft home using a 70,000 BTU heating?
>
>You're in Mo right?

Correct.

>I am in Minnesota and have a 1,700 sq ft '68 home that's ok
>with tightness, and got a 60,000 2 stage, and it runs on 1st
>stage (about 42,000) most of the time.

You may have found a chink in my swiss-cheese armor ...

The "70k btu" (for 58STA070-12 furnace) was something I lifted
from a formal, on-site bid from the Carrier shop that
installed my HVAC back in 1984. Of course, it didn't specify
input/output. I can't find specs for it on the net.

The old Carrier furnace (with flue damper), in service 21
years, is 75k btu input, 57k output. It has been described
as a "60% furnace". No problem with it's heating capacity.

All I want is something ballpark comparable in output.
Any/all help with this much appreciated.

The bidding shops (and I) are guilty of throwing numbers
around without fully specifying what they represent.

>A/C side, kind question that too.. I have 2 tons.

Forgive me for asking, but, with 1,700 sq ft, does it
finally cycle off in Jan. when it gets to be 9-below-zero??
(Just kidding, just kidding) :-)

Seriously, the old 2-ton unit was definitely in the ballpark.

Thanks,
Puddin'
 
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Old 03-05-06, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pudding_Man
>
>A/C side, kind question that too.. I have 2 tons.

Forgive me for asking, but, with 1,700 sq ft, does it
finally cycle off in Jan. when it gets to be 9-below-zero??
(Just kidding, just kidding) :-)

Seriously, the old 2-ton unit was definitely in the ballpark.

Thanks,
Puddin'
lol it cycles off before Jan comes! It runs pretty steady all day on a hot 87 degree days, but shuts off in the evening. It does not fall behind at all.

Only way to know what you need in your home is download the load calc!
 
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Old 03-06-06, 07:50 AM
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>Only way to know what you need in your home is download the load calc!

I downloaded but haven't installed.

It sez "free trial" but doesn't say what it'll do/not-do in
"free trial" period.

It's a Bait n' Switch thingness, right? Mess up my po' pc and
do nothing 'till I give 'em a credit card # (if I installed it,
that is)???

Thx,
Puddin'
 
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Old 03-06-06, 06:59 PM
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"Free Trial"

As I recall, during the free trial, you can make a few changes to the sample house in the program to see what effect the change would have on the final load calculation. It will not let you make enough changes to get close to your own house.
 
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Old 03-06-06, 06:59 PM
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The "Free trial" will let you down load and play with it to get a feel, you won't be able to do your whole home.

Give the free part a try, and you think you can do it, then pay the $50 on line w/ a Card.

I took me a little bit a first to figure it out, but once I got it done, it was very easy..

I did my home, my parents new home, and a friend's home.. I think the program is good for a year? But it's the best $50 I've spent for my home comfort!
 
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Old 03-09-06, 03:09 PM
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I found the specs. The old furnace is 75k/57k btu. The new is 75k/59k btu.
No more load issues.

I've contracted for new Heil furnace, AC, etc to be installed next week by
one of the best rated shops in the area.

Much thanks to everyone for your help. Especially to Grady.

Skoal,
Puddin'
 
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Old 03-09-06, 03:40 PM
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Specs on the old furnace should NEVER be used when you replace a new one. Always do a load calc.



I didn't go by that on my old one.. My old one was 120k, and new one is 60k.
 
 

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