Riello 40 Series Model F5 Bleeding


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Old 04-10-07, 01:20 PM
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Exclamation Riello 40 Series Model F5 Bleeding

Hello. Seems that I've run into some sour luck and can't get our furnace to restart. I hit the reset switch and it kicked in and burned for about a whole 10 seconds before cutting out. I'm going to attempt to bleed the lines and see if air has entered the lines but I can't find the manual anywhere and I am not 100% sure as to what screw is the bleeding line.

This is the link to our burner, but it's slightly different than the one shown here: http://www.riello-burners.com/2_products/2_oil-burners/3d_40_features.asp

There are two screws, a copper one and a black one. The black one has another smaller screw in it's center. I am almost certain that the copper screw, which is beneath the black screw, is the bleeding line and the black screw is the pressure line. If anyone could help clarify this it would be greatly appreciated so that I don't end up taking out the wrong screw and having to call a technician in order to re-balance the pressure in the lines.
 
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Old 04-10-07, 02:45 PM
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Riello

Do you have one or two lines running from the tank to the burner? If two, resetting the burner a couple of times should get the burner fired. If only one line, call a tech. Riellos can be a bear to "prime". Don't mess with any screws. Unless you ran out of oil, air is not likely the problem.
 
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Old 04-10-07, 03:04 PM
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Yeah the tank ran out, which was not expected as the last fill up wasn't that long ago. There is only one line, I've seen someone else bleed the line before and from what I can remember the copper screw was the bleeding line on. So from what I can tell I'm gonna have to go with my gut on this one as either way it's gonna cost about $40-100 to get this fixed.
 
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Old 04-10-07, 03:07 PM
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Service call cost

If you screw up the pump, it is going to cost a bunch more than just a service call. If you can provide a photo of YOUR burner, I might be able to help. You can post the pic on photobucket.com or similar site & provide a link here.
 
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Old 04-10-07, 06:19 PM
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I believe you are describing the correct port for bleeding the pump. Do not turn the screw that you described. It is probably the pressure regulator and you will create problems if you adjust the pressure. The problem is that you can't bleed the pump well if there is no flame. That is a tough one. One way is to take the side cover off and shine a flashlight in while attempting to bleed the pump. Another is to use a 110 volt jumper wire across terminals 5 and 6 on the control base with the control removed. The burner will run constantly so you can bleed the pump. Some burners will bleed on gravity with the plug removed but you can't count on that. You can buy a bleed adapter for the pump for about $6 and it makes them much easier to bleed.

Ken
 
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Old 04-11-07, 05:49 PM
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Smile Thank you

Thanks for the help. I ended up being able to bleed the lines and got the furnace running again. I completely forgot about taking off the side panel and using a flashlight to fool the optical sensor. Bleeding this thing was extremely easy, only too the removal of 5 smaller screws with a screwdriver and one larger screw with a set of vice grips. Again, thank you very much for the help, you managed to help us save some money by not having to call in a technician.
 
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Old 01-27-09, 07:32 PM
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Thanks Grady

My Riello 40 F5 burner just died after a fillup.

Thanks for your advice that, with a dual-pipe configuration to the tank, the RESET might be tried twice.

Second attempt did it.

Saved us a cold night and expense.
 
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Old 01-27-09, 07:40 PM
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Riello

George, glad you found this old thread & it helped. Hope you let the tank settle a while before you started the burner otherwise you could pick up a bunch of junk out of the tank.
 
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Old 01-30-09, 07:15 AM
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Smile Don't touch the black screw

I have the same riello burner i sugest you dont touch the black screw it can change the setting on the pump pressure, and that will make matters worst again dont touch the black srew. The copper line is for bleading the syste good luck.
 
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Old 02-12-09, 12:57 PM
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Riello 40

Hey there guys,

Great that I found this thread, I hope someone is still willing to have a chat about this burner.

I have a burner that seems to take several starts to get it to light. Sometimes its worse than other times. I have heard talk about this optical sensor, but I'm not sure where to locate it. I had the pump on the furnace changed recently, I have lots of oil... Not quite sure what the problem is.

It will start up just fine, but only last for about 5 seconds and then it just shuts down. Then about 2 or 3 seconds later it fires up again, and the process repeats. It will do this several times and eventually the blower will come on (hot air). I know that it is .. technically working... but I figure that this kind of start/stop thing can't be really efficient or good for the motor or start capacitor.

Does anyone have any clue as to what I should do? I have a gut feeling that the optical sensor is gunked up and not seeing the flame.. but.. I can't really be too sure.

Anyhow, any help would be great.
Thanks.
 
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Old 02-12-09, 02:05 PM
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Optical Sensor

It could be the optical sensor (cad cell) but unlikely. I suspect the air/fuel mixtrue is off for some reason. If you've never worked on a Riello it is difficult to explain how to remove the nozzle so it can be changed. I suggest you call your service company & while the servicer is there, watch & ask questions. Most don't mind. While he/she is there, get him/her to check the fuel pump pressure to make sure it is set properly for your furnace.
 
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Old 02-12-09, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rosborough17
Hey there guys,


It will start up just fine, but only last for about 5 seconds and then it just shuts down. Then about 2 or 3 seconds later it fires up again, and the process repeats. It will do this several times and eventually the blower will come on (hot air). I know that it is .. technically working... but I figure that this kind of start/stop thing can't be really efficient or good for the motor or start capacitor.


Thanks.
Does the burner motor stay on or shut off?
Does the flame actually get established?
Can you hear a clicking from the delayed oil valve on top of the pump?
 
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Old 02-12-09, 05:14 PM
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There isn't any obvious clicking going on.

I think a flame is being established, though intermittently. See, it will do this on/off cycle about 5-10 times and then the blower comes on with heat. So, obviously some heat is being tossed in there (presumably from a flame).

The motor does not stay on during its "off". It comes on for about 5 seconds, like I said, and when it shuts off, it is completely silent. Then, after about two or three seconds, it fires up again. Eventually... there is enough heat in there that the blower will come on.

I have noticed, however.. that these on/off cycles get a bit longer as it goes through its 5-10 repetitions. That is, it will stay on for a bit longer each time...
The pump was replaced in December, and it was installed by a technician.
Eventually, it fires up and stays on... and if it had just been on, say 20 minutes before (during a cold day where it is constantly dishing out heat), it will usually fire up on the first go.
This is why I have a feeling it could be taking some gasps of cold air and (since cold air is dense), it might not allow for proper ignition. The oil tank is inside, but my basement is a dirt (gravel) floor... so... there are a variety of factors.

Where is this optical sensor on the burner? I want to clean it (regardless).

Thanks guys.
 
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Old 02-12-09, 07:54 PM
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Optical Sensor

Turn the power off at the switch or breaker. Remove the burner cover. On the left side of the grey control box (where the red reset button is) there is a screw. Loosen the screw & pull the control straight back about 1/2". Lift the back of the control box & pull back to remove the control from it's base. The sensor is on the burner end at the bottom center. Wipe gently with a tissue or soft cloth.
 
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Old 02-15-09, 07:48 PM
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Alrighty, so I did all of that and cleaned the optical sensor... still the same thing is going on.

You mentioned that it is probably the air/fuel mixture?

I've noticed that, once the blower comes on, it runs pretty smoothly actually. Once its actually going, the flame is pretty nice and all seems well. It just takes about 5-10 of these 5 or 10 second running starts for it to finally stay lit.

Before it fires up, the pump is going and, this stage is starting to sound different now. Sort of like a drill when its being over worked. I know that this is probably some kind of strain on the motor or start-capacitor.. but I can't be sure.

Any suggestions? I'm really starting to worry that I'm going to wake up freezing cold.
In Canada, that is not fun at all.
 
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Old 02-15-09, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rosborough17

Before it fires up, the pump is going and, this stage is starting to sound different now. Sort of like a drill when its being over worked. I know that this is probably some kind of strain on the motor or start-capacitor.. but I can't be sure.
In Canada, that is not fun at all.
I doubt that this is the problem, but have you jumped out the stat at the burner at all to make sure there's no problem with the stat or wiring?

Since you say now that there is a "overworked drill" sound, I wonder if the pump is starting to seize or the pressure is fluctuating.

You've never had to hit the reset button?
 
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Old 02-16-09, 03:12 PM
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Sound

If you are hearing the sound I think you are, I believe the bearings in the motor are going. Replacing a motor on a Riello is no picnic & far more expensive than on other burners.
 
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Old 02-16-09, 11:13 PM
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I have reset the burner twice actually, and after doing it it seems to work well for the first go.
After the furnace sits off for a while though, the problem starts to happen again.

At this rate, I might just buy a Beckett. Some of my family members use them with little to no problems, and the difference in efficiency is more or less negligible.

It might be the bearings in the motor, but... I don't think so.
See, this sound was happening before, though the start/stop thing was not. I called in the technician and he and I took a look at it, and we figured out that the start capacitor was more or less shot, and it didn't have enough juice to get the pump/motor working fast enough on start. Anyhow, we replaced that, along with a brand new pump (the old one had a crack in the casting).
After we did both of those things, it was working great. Probably about a month afterward - this problem started happening.

Any further thoughts before I buy a used Beckett for $50?
 
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Old 02-17-09, 07:35 PM
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Heater Make & Model?

If you can provide the make & model of the heater, I might be able to get you the original set up specs for both burners if they were both available as original equipment.
If the heater were made specifically for a Riello, the Beckett probably won't fit. The air tube on a Beckett is larger in diameter.
 
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Old 02-17-09, 08:32 PM
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Lightbulb Just Remembered Something

I recently had a Riello doing the exact same thing. It about drove 3 of us crazy trying to figure out what was going on. Finally after testing this & replacing that, we abandoned the return to the tank & installed a Tiger Loop. It seems there was a miniscule air leak at the return fitting in the pump. We knew it was a fuel related problem but after 2 pumps & new fittings we decided to try the loop just to see if we'd get any air bubbles. Sure enough & we could see they were coming from the return side but none on the suction. Replaced the short steel line going into the pump return fitting again & the bubbles went away.
 
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Old 02-18-09, 05:54 AM
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Hmmm,

Thanks for all the help so far Grady.

I'll get the Model number for you this evening, I'm just running out the door now.
 
 

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